Whether or not Sony knew just how much the Ghostbusters reboot was going be championed as a movie about queer romance and friendship, we have certainly taken it there. We do this often as a community – taking seemingly generic family films and bending them into something we can recognize – because if the best we’re going to get in terms of mainstream representation is subtext, y’all better believe we’re running with it! And if people are confused as to how we’re able to weave in these queer backstories and theories with such conviction, the answer is simple: we’ve had decades of practice.
We cut our teeth on movies like Young Man and A Horn, All About Eve, and Fried Green Tomatoes, but never had we been put to work quite like we were with A League of Their Own. Admittedly, the undertones in this film starring Geena Davis, Orange is the New Black‘s Lori Petty, Rosie O’Donnell, and Madonna about the formation of the All-American Girls Professional Baseball League that was to replace Major League Baseball while the men were away in WWII was lost on me as a child. Thankfully here in America, TBS has been airing it on loop four months out of every year since it came out in 1992, so I’ve gotten to watch the film’s nuances unfold in real time.
Now that Ghostbusters has proven itself worthy of this esteemed tradition almost 25 years after we initiated A League of Their Own, it begs the question: which is gayer?
Plot
Ghostbusters: Four friends set out to save New York City from an impending ghost invasion.
A League of Their Own: Women from all over the country come together to create the nation’s first professional women’s baseball league.
I mean.
Victor: A League of Their Own
Stars
Ghostbusters: Melissa McCarthy, Kristen Wiig, Kate McKinnon, Leslie Jones
A League of Their Own: Geena Davis, Lori Petty, Rosie O’Donnell, Madonna
Again, this one is a bit unfair. Kate McKinnon certainly pulls her weight, but Geena Davis has been many a queer woman’s root, Lori Petty was Tank Girl, Rosie is Rosie, and Madonna is Madonna.
Victor: A League of Their Own
Characters
Ghostbusters:
Abby (Melissa) – Abby seems tentatively gay in a way where she doesn’t actively date women but she does sign up for OKCupid a couple of times a year for a week to browse women’s profiles before deleting her account without messaging anyone.
Erin (Kristen) – The way Erin swoons over their assistant, Kevin, is sort of classic straight girl, but because Kevin is the human equivalent of a golden retriever, that doubles back as gay.
Holtzmann (Kate) – Is Holtzmann.
Patty (Leslie) – Quite frankly Patty seems down for whatever.
A League of Their Own:
Dottie (Geena) – Even though Dottie’s married we know she’s gay because her husband, Bob/Bill Pullman, has the least sexually threatening presence on earth and that’s 101 Don’t Know I’m Gay Yet. (Also I know right now many of you are in a Kate McKinnon fog and it’s going to be hard to not immediately have your minds made up on this one, but I will tell you this: Geena Davis as Dottie in A League of Their Own was Holtzmann before there was Holtzmann.)
Kit (Lori) – Kit’s has an active disinterest in men for most of the film, which makes her end of the movie boyfriend feel hilariously tacked on.
Doris (Rosie) – Doris is your classic butch who even gets her own beard!
Mae (Madonna) – Mae is clearly bisexual.
With the exception of Mae, Dottie and the gang feel more anchored in their tropes of denial. In a face off between Mae and Holtzma[passes out].
Victor: A League of Their Own
Outfits
Ghostbusters: Jumpsuits
A League of Their Own: Skirted uniforms
This one is not as obvious at it may seem. Sure, there is a queer element to women in pants since there was a time when women weren’t allowed to wear them in public, but ultimately for me the deciding factor here is the accessories. High socks and ball caps are no match for goggles, belts, backpacks, finger gloves, straps on straps, and guns.
Victor: Ghostbusters
Affiliations
Ghostbusters: A paranormal fight squad
A League of Their Own: The Rockford Peaches, a team in a women’s baseball league
We were on equal footing until peaches came into play. They were neither from Georgia or Florida, and symbolic imagery is real.
Victor: A League of Their Own
Nicknames
Ghostbusters: Holtzmann, aka “Holtzy”
A League of Their Own: “All the Way” Mae Mordabito, Betty “Betty Spaghetti” Horn & Alice “Skeeter” Gaspers
Coming from years of personal experience playing sports: calling someone by their last name is way gayer than coming up with a new nickname all together.
Victor: Ghostbusters
Interpersonal Dynamics
Ghostbusters: There is definitely tension between Abby and Erin for most of the film that reads like Erin is internally pleading for Abby not to mention their probably romantic past. Abby knows this about Erin and shifts that energy she’s being forced to suppress at Holtzmann. Patty and Holtzmann operate for most of the movie in that sweet spot of a crush where even doing terrible things together is exciting.
A League of Their Own: Doris is in love with Mae and irrationally considers them to be dating even though deep down she knows Mae just thinks of her as a friend. On the surface it could seem like Mae and Dottie never warm up to each other because Mae thinks Dottie is stuck up, but really it’s because Mae knows Dottie is the one person who could top her and that is too much to handle. Dottie avoids hanging out with the team during down time because subconsciously she knows what happens when you play with fire (you get turned).
This one’s close but I’m going active over passive here.
Victor: Ghostbusters
What They’re Fighting
Ghostbusters: I’m A Nice Guy/Sexism
A League of Their Own: Themselves/Sexism
Victor: Ghostbusters
Dialogue
Ghostbusters:
Holtzmann: “Forgot about my new toys.”
Holtzmann: [to Erin (me)] “Come here often?”
Erin: “Proton guns are all well and good, but sometimes you need the Swiss Army.”
A League of Their Own:
Dottie: “No, Bob and I are driving home. To Oregon.”
Ellen Sue: “Batter up, hear that call. The time has come for one and all… to play ball.”
Radio Announcer: “When our boys come home from war, what kind of girls will they be coming home to?”
Victor: A League of Their Own
Davis vs. McKinnon Standout Moments
Ghostbusters:
A League of Their Own:
Victor: Ghostbusters
Featuring Men
Ghostbusters: Chris Hemsworth, Bill Murray
A League of Their Own: Tom Hanks, Jon Lovitz
Bill Murray is dressed like gay antique dealer in Ghostbusters, but Tom Hanks has a distinctly lesbian feel to him. Plus Jon Lovitz is literally recruiting girls for “the team.”
Victor: A League of Their Own
Cameos
Ghostbusters: Sigourney Weaver as a hot scientist who seems to be into younger women.
A League of Their Own: Garry Marshall (rip) as a rich white guy who loves candy bars and watching ladies play ball.
Victor: Ghostbusters
Closing Credits
Ghostbusters: Chris Helmsworth dancing?
A League of Their Own: MEMBERS OF THE ORIGINAL ROCKFORD PEACHES WHO ARE ALL LIKE 90 AT THIS POINT PLAYING A GAME OF SOFTBALL WHILE MADONNA’S ‘THIS USED TO BE MY PLAYGROUND’ PLAYS IN THE BACKGROUND.
Victor: A League of Their Own
Final Tally
Ghostbusters: 6
A League of Their Own: 7
In the words of the announcer from A League of Their Own, “Take me home momma and put me to bed. I have seen enough to know I have seen too much.” What an inspiring performance by both teams. One for the books! Remember: we are all winners here. And Ghostbuster fans, there’s always a chance to reclaim the title with Ghostbusters 2.
Erin this is outrageous and you are clearly biased towards A league of their Own.
but I mean I get why.
Chloe thr stars are blind and so am i!!
You’ve forgotten openly gay Megan Cavanagh as Marla! And Anne Ramsay who played Robin on The L Word and I don’t know, might be one of us in real life too.
I intentially left out marla bc she is too pure for this breakdown. but yes to anne! i wanted to keep it somewhat even numbers tho so it wasnt like, an entire baseball team again 4 ppl. do you still think anne gets people asking her about her red hat or do you think thats passed?
Anne Ramsay also played gay on Secret Life of the American Teenager, and according to IMDB, “enjoys athletics” in her spare time. One of us! One of us!
She also played gay in The Taking of Deborah Logan and I am completely convinced she’s one of us. I can’t think of a single role where’s she’s even seemed fully straight, plus she’s involved with a lot of Pride events. I think we get to claim her at this point.
I have always had a huge crush on Anne Ramsay from A League of Their Own and The L Word. How can she not be queer IRL?
Did y’all see the NY Times article?
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/04/movies/kate-mckinnon-on-ghostbusters-snl-and-hillary-clinton.html?_r=0
Been thinking about the joy of articles like these, and how this community (online queer editorials) didn’t really exist during A League of their Own.
And I was thinking like now, “of course we’re gonna get cannon queer Holtzmann.” It will just organically come out, and Autostraddle will write some amazing article that I will bookmark (like this one).
And she’s point blank asked- “Do you think it’s significant that moviegoers who don’t see themselves represented onscreen (queer) are identifying with her?” after saying she did’t have opinions about Holtzmann being gay.
(Now putting other stuff aside, whether or not she was asked not to say, or whether she genuinely feels that answer best befits the character, etc.)
Are we at the point where we don’t always need the political move of characters being identified, if romantic relationships are not part of the plot? Or do we still need it, or now more than ever?
That is such a disappointing response. But also makes it clearer how much she’s been silenced now (or has had to silence herself?) Her interviews with Julie Goldman and Bridget McManus were so candid once upon a time. I hope in a post SNL life she will be again.
Agree totally. The fact that she immediately shut down the question about Holtzmann’s sexuality speaks volumes about what she’s been told not to discuss.
Very disappointing and slightly concerning. If the studio is so concerned about people reading her as anything other than straight, are they going to stifle Kate’s gloriously queer portrayal of Holtz in the next film?
Maybe we should start calculating odds on who will play her boyfriend in the sequel. What does everyone think? Socially incompetent scientist/accountant? Or maybe, secret husband. Place your bets.
I mean they haven’t pushed her back in to the point of someone like Luke Evans. Most profiles of her include a mention of her being the first lesbian cast member as long as that isn’t part of a quote from her. Kumail referred to her as a gay woman while they hosted the independent spirit awards. But it’s like she’s not allowed to talk about it herself or be “too” gay or something.
JA i think this is a great question! I don’t think its necessary (or even a good idea) to shoehorn in like “this person is gay btw, here is their partner) but i do think it’s a lot easier to let a character operate organically. holtzmann comes off as the type to make a one off comment about how hot a woman was, but instead she’s made to give these long, weird stares. just seems like more work than anything!
To answer your last question: no. I saw Ghostbusters with one of my straight progressive sisters (I have three of those) and after, over beer and fried pickles, discussed the merits of the film. I told her that the producer winknodded to Holtzmann being queer and the studio was not about the gay. “But she was flirting with Hemsworth!” was her reply. So… no. We’re not there yet.
This is my only response.
[youtube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQvr_0Ddidc&w=560&h=315%5D
I AM SCREAMING
Erin you kill me! How do you always manage to place such sharp truths inbetween all the hilarity?
Love it.
AL thank you
Oh my gosh, just reading about the League of Their Own credits in all-caps made me emotional. You’re right. Putting aside the heavy Holtzmann fog, the clear winner is League of Their Own. But maybe Ghostbusters will be the baby queers’ League of Their Own. And that’s beautiful.
I agree!
I never got the appeal of A League of Their Own I have never rematched that movie it and the only reason I saw it in the first place was because of Madonna.
Most of the planet doesn’t care/follow baseball so I’m gonna go with Ghostbusters on this one.
ahaha carmen fair enough!!
CARMEN SANDIEGO I LOVE YOU BUT NO.
First of all, one watches that movie despite Madonna, not because of her.
Secondly, I present: Geena Davis and her lips! Rosie O’Donnell and her sass! Sliding around in the dirt! Women who roll their eyes and work around incompetent men! And, if we’re being honest, those fetching uniforms.
I don’t even like baseball. But when you grow up watching that movie every other weekend with your three best friends (on a rotation with Now & Then – wow, we really had a thing for sleeper gay movies, how was I the only one who grew up queer), it worms its way into your heart and stays there. <3
This. DIRT IN THE SKIRT, children. DIRT IN THE SKIRT.
I was just saying to my wife, “I’m realizing reading these comments that a league of their own was my root – that and now and then.” Every sleepover from 5-8th grade. At least. (Also clueless, which, different vibe and no Rosie, but also gay)
@sienak yes!! were you also born between 1980 and 1985? what a time it was to be alive ;-)
YUP 1984. Good times.
Now and Then? Now we’re talking! That one is Sooo good
And I guess A League of Their Own is an American thing, I just don’t see the appeal. it’s meh, like peanut butter.
But I fucking love Madonna
Geena Davis snatching that ball out of midair with her RIGHT hand (she is right-handed so she catches with the mitt on her left hand) has always made me swoon. No contest.
you get me
Yes Seriously this, I was like you compare those 2 gifs and award it to Ghostbusters, you’re insane!
But I can’t say that too loud cuz my girlfriend is nuts about that scene in ghostbusters.
right? tbf, I haven’t seen Ghostbusters yet.
Bingo !
Are you kidding with the nicknames, ump? It is an anachronistic comparison. ALOTO should have won this contest 8-5.
“Boy, did she smack that one on the kisser. No wonder they call her ‘All the Way’ Mae.”
omg u called me ump
i thought it was thematically appropriate :D
This was great! ??
Looks like I’m grabbing “A League of Their Own” out of the DVD closet this weekend.
Just turn on tbs!!
*Scoffs* I don’t do normal TV, Eric. ;)
Wtf? Eric? I literally just deleted that and wrote Erin. Holy hell I’m tripping or I’m stuck in a space-time loop. :P
Now I’m picturing Erin dressed as Disney prince for Halloween or a costume party.
Know any cute red heads who’d dress up as mer-person fer ya Erin?
I do love a hair swoop
Hmm. I have the white cotton shirt that is pretty much a duplicate for cosplay. I’m pretty sure I’ve got a red sash too.
In retrospect, someone should have realized I was gay waaaaaay sooner based purely on the number of times I borrowed A League of Their Own from the library as a child.
Oh from the library bless you
This cover picture makes me think of another movie, “Boys on the Side”.
There, Mary Stuart Masterson’s character sits in a diner with a young and beat up Drew Barrymore, and they talk about Whoopi Goldberg’s character who is a Lesbian and they talk about her being a Lesbian.
Barrymore’s character has a quote that goes like this,”I don’t know much about them, but all Lesbians love UPS uniforms.”
Well, point made.
Anyway, this post perfectly illustrates how wordy and awkward commenting was before youtube.
And, also, gifs.
Why have I never heard of this movie? This must be remedied immediately!
I watched that movie in the theater with my best friend from high school when it came out. Then we went and got the cd soundtrack.
“They were neither from Georgia or Florida”
this blew my mIND [thinking face emoji]
I LOVE both movies :) I’m giving ALOTO the win for sure! The reasons are similar to the above, but with emphasis on time. ALOTO was put out when making a queer-centric movie was near suicide.
That said I ADORE the new GhostBusters. I rarely even stream sequels … they are rarely even the equal. But, this one is SOOOOoooooo BAdAss, even compared to the original…. total win for the ladies !!
it frightens me how brilliant this is
I don’t know how my ALOTO radar didn’t ping immediately when this article first posted but better late than never, which is to say: YES ALL OF THIS YES
re: Kit’s tacked-on boyfriend, you mean the rando dude she meets at the Sudsbucket? Or just that they showed her as having married and had kids/grandkids at the very end? I mean, either way I agree it felt wrong, but I don’t recall an actual boyfriend character?