We then, regretfully, return to Poker Night for what I think is my least favorite scene of the entire series! Carrie approaches Bette and asks if she can join her, and Bette, oozing self-assurance and Pippa-induced glee, says she’s here with a friend, and Carrie is… not taking no for an answer?
Lesbian Squabble #25: This Used to Be My Playground
In the Ring: Bette vs. Carrie
Bette rejects Carrie as her seated companion, Carrie says wow she just had a flashback to Ye Olde Staten Island High School when all the cool girls called her a dyke when she asked to sit with them at lunch, and Bette says she’s so sorry, that was not her intention, and then shares a “similar experience” she had at soccer camp with two girls who would say “n—— dyke” and made her sit in the back of the bus as a joke, but “we don’t need to play oppression Olympics.” These are very heavy and traumatic admissions happening in this squabble and my head is spinning!
Carrie would like to hang out and maybe bond but Bette reminds her that it’s not the best night for this.”Seriously?” Carrie asks. “Really?” Bette says she’s down to be civil but anything beyond that feels unnecessary.
Carrie: You know what, Bette? On the way here I was feeling really good, I had like a bounce in my step, I got this new outfit on, and I was up there and I saw you, and I just want you to know, it does not feel good to be around you. It feels like I’m a kid in some kind of trouble.
Bette: That, to me, feels like that’s your baggage.
Carrie: Okay, that’s a good point. That’s a really good point. I guess that I just wanted your blessing? Or your acceptance, would be nice?
Bette: If you think what you have with Tina is working and you feel really good about it then I don’t see why you would care what i think about you.
Who Wins? Nobody has ever lost more than both of the parties in this conversation. However, Bette did have the clear upper hand in this convo and did not need to say what she said at the end.
Welp, another person on an unfortunate track this evening is Dani, who has come to The Event to ask for Bette’s blessing to date Gigi. Everybody wants Bette’s blessing tonight and nobody is gonna get it! Of course, the first thing Dani sees upon entering is Sophie and Finley canoodling. So she beelines for the bathroom, where Nat and Alice are finishing up a little Stall Sex.
Are those MSCHF x Lil Nas X ‘Satan Shoes’??
Nat and Alice emerge from the stall, radiant from their recent sex act and unable to play it cool. Dani tells them she wants to ask Bette how Bette would feel about her dating Gigi, and Alice and Nat are wildly insistent that Bette would not mind at all, which Dani remains a bit confused about. Then, because somebody has to be mean to Gigi in every episode, Alice adds: “In fact, if you think Gigi’s gonna work for you, I’d be grateful, you know?”
And actually, if y’all do start fucking, can you let me know if she still has the Wildfire Real Man Dream Dick in her toy box? It was supposed to come back to me in the divorce.
“And for what it’s worth, she’s really into you,” Nat says as she leaves.”I had lunch with her the other day and she hasn’t seemed this into someone in a while.” A locked vault, that Nat!
To ensure Dani’s night only gets worse from here, we proceed to the episode’s next BIG CRINGE Encounter: Finley accosting Dani to say she’s “so fucking sorry.” Dani, on the fucking ball, is like “no you’re not.” Which brings us to…
Lesbian Squabble #26: No Ma’am
There are exactly zero (0) universes in which Finley broaching this convo is remotely appropriate, and yet here we are! This is the exact person Finley should NOT be seeking advice from, re: handling her girlfriend.
Finley: I’m trying to be an adult and you’re like, the most adult person I know.
Dani: I think that says more about you than it does about me.
Finley: But we’re like, the same age.
Dani: And I think the similarities end there.
Finley: But you’re also scary, like really scary, but I mean that as a complement—
Dani: Finley. What?
Finley: I mean, I wanna be better, like how do I get it together?
Dani: Get a job? Don’t steal people’s fiancées?
Finley: Yeah, I don’t think that’s it…
Dani: Okay, I don’t fucking know then. I am so sick of people thinking I have it all together. Because all that means is that unlike you, people aren’t inclined to hold me when I need it most. And if you ever use that against me so help me god, will actually kill you.
Finley: Can I hug you?
Dani: No!
Who Wins? Dani. That line about all that means is that people don’t hold her like they hold Finley? I adore it. Gold Medal in Squabbling Goes to Dani Nunez. (ETA: As some commenters have pointed out, Dani has refused multiple offers in multiple episodes to Be Held. But it’s still a great line!)
Pippa’s glad this poker game is for charity ’cause she lost so much of her money, but Bette feels a deep sense of relief to discover that Pippa is bad at something. The sexual tension, IT IS HIGH.
It’s true, when Joseph gave me his coat of many colors, I wasn’t sure if I could pull it off, but welp, I did
At last, these two power lesbians lock lips and decide to depart the venue,
Alice glares as Nat flirts with an extra at the bar, realizing relatively quickly in the life cycle of this reunion that nope, this is not gonna work.
JUNIOR MINT TIME
Nat wants to gab about how her new flirting buddy asked if Alice was Alice from the show and also would like to have more sex with Alice. Alice says she’s not into the sneaking around thing they’re doing, but this also isn’t going to work. Nat says it feels good, so why on earth should they stop doing it? “You know why,” Alice declares. Nat tears up. Alice tells her to butch up a little.
Here is a red rose broach to remember me by
Well and that is where that ends.
Angie and Jordi are processing the promposal. Angie says Jordi was acting SO WEIRD but now she’s kinda relieved, because it was coming down to the wire and she thought she’d have to go to prom alone! I thought you like, automatically go to prom with your girlfriend, right?
Just open your mouth a little bit and let me slip a Junior Mint in there
This does not feel like a resolution to the issues that were plaguing them!
Well, my fine feathered friends, Carrie is smashed and would like to play more poker. Unfortunately her phone isn’t working ’cause she doesn’t know the password even though she’s a lawyer who passed the bar in two states but she bumped into Bette Porter and it didn’t go great.
Tess: Maybe we should take her home, I mean i don’t want her throwing up in a Lyft.
Shane: Okay, so she can throw up in my car?
Tess: I mean….
Carrie: Phone can you tell me my password?
Shane: Why don’t we go home?
I mean your car already smells like that dog you intermittently take care of so why not also have some vomit in it
Exterior: EVENT VENUE. Finley and Sophie are drunkity drunk drunk. Sophie is drunkity drunk drunkest. Finley tells Sophie that she asked Dani for adulting and Loving Sophie advice and Sophie cracks up as if Finley did not just disclose something GENUINELY HORRIFYING. Sophie says Dani doesn’t know shit about how to love her, Finley is the one who loves her the best, and she’s also so impressed with how easily Finley charmed Barry’s pants off.
C’mere Red Rover come on overrrrrr
Sophie: “I lose myself all the time. I lose myself at work and I lost myself with Dani. With you… I can just be myself with you and I don’t have to think about it. You’re perfect.”
Sophie keeps going for the makeout while Finley reminds her that she is drunk! Sophie pulls out the nearly-empty flask from her pants, shaking it in the night air, revealing how little liquid remains inside. Finley tests its contents by pouring the remainders directly into her mouth as Sophie asks her if she is okay to drive. As I wrote in my notes: “ARE YOU OKAY TO DRIVE SHE SAYS AS FINLEY CHUGS FROM A FLASK”
MMMM POISION
They get into the car and even though I’ve had zero drinks, I immediately black out.
Dani’s decided to take her evening into her own hands and go visit someone who probably won’t make her feel really terrible! She knock-knock-knocks on Gigi’s door and then immediately retreats when Gigi doesn’t answer. But before she can creep off into the bushes in search of some bread for toast, Gigi emerges to declare that Dani is “a lot more dramatic than [she] thought.” Dani said she was unable to ask Bette for her blessing upon their union, and Gigi says okay, bad timing. She’s being so patient with Dani’s desire to pursue this silly line of reasoning!
Can I open my eyes yet?
Sorry nooooo
Dani is terrified to let herself like Gigi so soon after having her heart broken, which drives her to slut-shame Gigi for being “with everyone I know.” Gigi says that’s an exaggeration, and Dani consents that indeed it is. Look at these two resolving their conflicts so quickly so soon into their courtship!
Dani: But can I trust you?
Gigi: I’d like to think so.
Dani: Cause I’ve been hurt.
Gigi: What do you want?
Dani: Is this real? Are you real?
HELL YEAH IT’S REAL DANI BABY LEZ SEAL THIS WITH A KISS!!!!!!!!!!
AT LAST OUR SHIP REACHES ITS NOBLE SHORE!!!!!!
Gigi asks her to come inside but Dani wants to take it slow, instead they will just kiss in the rain, a noted romantic activity popular amongst lesbians in TV shows and men in Verizon commercials.
The rain continues its merciless onslaught against our everyday queer heroes as Shane and Tess arrive home with Carrie, who is slurring about how she loves Tina and she loves Angie. “Everyone else is I don’t know, you people are so beautiful and I’m not like you guys,” she continues, in the voice of a drunkity drunk drunkerpants.
And then Mufasa is hanging right off the cliff and Scar is right there and he doesn’t save him —
Shane and Tess promise her everything’s gonna be okay, the problem is not that she doesn’t deserve Tina, it’s that she consumed too many vodka-sodas. “I just can’t live like this the rest of my life,” Carrie sobs. “I don’t think I can marry Tina.”
Bette and Pippa have found themselves at the legendary Zacharian Gallery Of Art, where Kizmet Russel’s installation is good to go. Also good to go? Bette and Pippa on the train to tuna town!
Lesbian Sexy Moment #11: Guiding Light
The Pick-Up: “Let there be light, yo”
Hot or Not? Bette fires up the art exhibition and moves her body around Pippa’s. Pippa loves the art. I love Bette removing that blazer, but maybe all that gold sparkle was necessary for this scene, ’cause now it’s silver, and now there’s Pippa’s hand against the intricate racerback lingerie we overanalyzed in the trailer. Bette grabs Pippa’s head in yellow light, lies atop her in lime light, their lips dance in blue light, they breathe a lot in every color of light, they fuck in purple blue yellow white light, she comes in pink light, and they lie down on top of every color of light, folding into each other in a shot that I hope made the cinematographer scream with DELIGHT.
After putting Carrie to bed, Shane and Tess bundle under the umbrella like baby birds as the rain continues pelting the citizens of Los Angeles.
Shane: Were you that kind of drunk?
Tess: Oh no, I was much worse than that.
Shane: Really?
Tess: I mean she didn’t break a bone… or a dish.
Shane thanks her — she couldn’t have done it alone! They’re a great team and should have children. It’s time for them to make out in the rain! EVERYBODY’S KISSING TONIGHT LETS FUCKING GOOOOOO
At last, we return to the source of my anxiety, which is about to hit the roof! Sophie’s teasing Finley’s hair, telling her how handsome she is, how charming she is, and Finley’s Intense Drunk Driver posture is softening, bit by bit, even moreso when Sophie unbuttons her pants and shoves Finley’s hand in there. Finley takes her eyes off the road again. She’s likely swerving. I am afraid someone is about to die.
Toss me a Junior Mint?
As soon as the lights start flashing, Finley goes rigid, terrified, unable to speak. “You can talk your way out of anything,” Sophie says as Finley takes a deep breath. “You’re okay, right? Right?”
Sorry let me just check something really fast….
NOPE SHE’S DEFINITELY NOT OK!!!!!
The Round-Up
Sexy Moments: 3 this episode, 11 total
Squabbles: 3 this episode, 26 total
Quote of the Week: “I am so sick of people thinking I have it all together. Because all that means is that unlike you, people aren’t inclined to hold me when I need it most.” – Dani
Pages: 1 2 3See entire article on one page
I absolutely hate how the writers/showrunners portray Carrie. The only butch representation that they have in the L-Word is a person who is insecure of her looks because she does not conform to the normative beauty standards that pretty much every single other character but her conforms to. There is one (1) butch who is not thin, and this butch is talking about calories, what she “can” drink. This butch says basically that with her age and looks, it has to be eating or alcohol, it could not be sex. Really, L-Word? Are you kidding me? There are so many fabulous older butches who are not thin, some of whom I know, and who are super sexy, who know their worth, who are self-confident and who are very much desired.
There is nothing wrong with being insecure about one’s own looks, but again, this is the only butch representation in this series and I hate that they are doing this trope. A person who is not thin? Has to be at Overeaters Anonymously and has to speak about being unhappy with her looks and calories. And has to be viewed as pitiful (as Shane and Tess do).
Showrunner Marja Lewis-Ryan has stated last month that she wants queer people to see themselves in The L Word, to be represented. Well, thanks for nothing. Bad representation is not better than no representation. Marja Lewis-Ryan has also said that Rosie O’Donnell is willing to be “the butt of a joke” and that her “deep insecurities” are “just so fun to watch” and “satisfying.” No, they aren’t. It is unnecessarily cruel that the only person who is not thin in this series has to be insecure about her looks and becomes the “butt of a joke”. The viewers are invited to be just as cruel to Carrie/Rosie O’Donnell as the thin characters in the series who are either dismissive or pitiful. There are countless people on YouTube trashing Carrie for her looks and put forward that they don’t know why Tina is with her. I do not look forward to when normative beautiful Tina will leave Carrie for normative beautiful Bette (no idea what will happen, but I believe this will be the case).
Why don’t the thin characters on the show have body issues? Why make the only butch/person who is not thin this sad, insecure and over-the-top “pathetic”? I cannot stand it. So much for wanting people to feel seen and represented, Marja. It failed.
Having said that, all of this wouldn’t be just as horrible if there was more butch representation (in this show and in other movies/shows) that did not conform to normative beauty standards and if the thin characters were depicted as having body issues, speaking about their compulsion to thinness etc.
Yesss, all this. And while Finley’s masc/andro gender presentation isn’t the same as Carrie’s, it does stand out to me that Finley’s portrayed negatively compared to most other characters as well.
Love this! I do thinks Rosie’s shtick is kind of real and relatable. I know people like her! But most butch women I know are very confident in their presentation – or at least come across so – and it sucks that the only butch woman on the show expresses herself this way. It kind of feel like the writers agree with what she is saying. Boo!
I could be wrong, but I kinda feel like Carrie’s characterization has Rosie O. written *all over it*, as in, she was consulted on some of Carrie’s character, and being that Rosie is a mess, she wanted Carrie to be a mess, too.
I personally love Carrie and that she’s not all polished and Hollywood ledollarsignbian, even if she’s coming unglued. I will not, however, forgive this show E V E R if she offs herself.
i feel like that too
This comment really hit home. I found the way Carrie was portrayed in this episode really brutal to watch, actually. They made her seem pathetic, and it was upsetting. She’s a beautiful woman and her relationship with Tina – even in the few scenes we’ve seen – is sweet and relatable. The Bette I watched in the original could be harsh, but the complexity of her character has been wiped away. She’s casually cruel now, so I don’t feel like I’m watching the same Bette.
This iteration of the series doesn’t know how to show respect for its characters. It’s just so poorly written. Rosie’s performance is great, and she deserves better.
Well put – thank you!!!
Cecily @skeskali mentioned there might be some influence on Carrie’s development from Rosie and I thought the same thing. I remembered reading or watching something about Rosie a while back where she talked about not fitting in with the glam of the celeb lesbian scene, not being comfortable in her own body, and just feeling/being insecure with herself and her body and in relationships.
Though I wholeheartedly agree about the need for more upfront butch representation, I’m not sure that Carrie being overweight and butch is a trope or something that’s being exploited by Marja or the show. The overwhelming majority of butch lesbian characters I’ve seen in movies or on tv (they’ve been on the periphery but present even on this show) has been confident and/or the player type regardless of size so if anything Carrie’s character is going against the butch types typically shown. If Rosie did indeed play a part in how the character is developed, is it bad representation if it’s in part or on the whole based on her experience?
I don’t think it’s bad representation at all. Being that I basically *live* for butches/studs, but they’re so often portrayed as the smooth Lothario type. Seeing Carrie and Abby (on Work In Progress) on my television every week is like a gift from Heaven sent down just for me!
The representation question was more for the OP, sorry about that. But I, again, agree with you about Carrie and Abby and butches/studs. Btw…I just started watching Work in Progress and I’m really feeling Abby and all her friends who are basically antithetical to the characters on the current and OG TLW except Carrie, Tasha, and Finley. Not for nothing, all 3 of those characters 100% had/have felt frozen out, judged by, and insecure around the glam squad.
yeah i think rosie took part in creating the role — she’s also very open about her mental health stuff — and i agree that it’s actually going against type for her to not be skinny.
this was the original casting call, i assume before rosie expressed interest in being in the show:
“CARRIE. Female. 40s-60s. The character is portayed as white, South East Asian, Asian, Black or Hispanic. A down-to-earth entertainment lawyer with no frills. RECURRING GUEST STAR.”
Thank you for articulating this so well, Carrie’s scenes were uncomfortable to watch. She was so sweet and funny and endearing in the episode we were introduced to her – I’m not able to grasp how we’ve ended up here now.
Thanks for this really thoughtful comment! I did feel connected to Carrie feeling very insecure around these people who are all tapped into something, even just stylistically, that she can’t access and not knowing where to put that feeling, but I really wish they’d given us a few more butch characters with different experiences, too.
I know there isn’t much real estate for more characters, but a butch whose anxieties came from literally anything but her butchness could’ve been so special and brand spanking new.
If they deny us another butch, then I hope they at least let Carrie meet Tom, so they can commiserate about the sorta mean weirdos of LA.
Mina, I didn’t even realize this was a thing I could want but now I WANT IT VERY, VERY MUCH THANK YOU
SECONDED
Hear hear!
This show has so much internalized homophobia.
I have loved every single one of these recaps! They’re fantastic
Your photo captions are also hilarious and never at all what I expect – each time I get to a new one I giggle out loud. Particularly loving the Lion King theme this week
Thank you!
I did not think Finley was charming with Sophie’s boss at all. She was pushy and rude and didn’t let Sophie speak for herself.
Marry Me GiGi
Thanks for the recap! I loved all the Simba/Lion King references, this was so funny! However the term “Eskimo” is a derogatory word, as it was commonly used by white racist non-Native colonizers. Inuit is a better word, it means “people”.
ahhhh so sorry i didn’t realize. thanks for the kind correction. i removed the “[x] kisses” phrase entirely and will come up with a better caption for that pic!
Sophie and Finley helped me set my all time record for “please don’t”s uttered during an episode of genQ.
As always, great recap.
I’m surprised people(many people, not just Riese) agreed so vehemently with Dani’s statement about no one holding her-Bette showed up to support her right after the wedding and Dani pushed her away, then Dani showed up in the middle of the night to be held and Bette obliged. Micah continued to support her when Dani wasn’t answering his texts or letting him speak to her to the point of sending Sophie after her to support/inadvisably hold her instead. And Gigi heard about the wedding and immediately befriended Dani, even comforting Dani last episode by saying “I didn’t think you were” when Dani admits she’s not okay.
Dani’s words no doubt reflect her feelings, and I used to feel something similar, that if I could appear to be on top of things then no one would help me. In reality, I HAD some friends offering support when my stress leaked through cracks, but I pushed them away-I had spent so little of my life asking for help that I didn’t know how to accept it when offered, and believed I would embarrass myself if I did accept. Dani is confusing her pride with her friends’ intentions toward her. She spent as much of that weird convo in her feelings as Finley did, especially the part where she told someone whose place of work she recently visited to “get a [real] job.”
dammit you’re right (about there actually being a lot of people who offered to hold her)
i do still think it’s a good line though, and i can see how it feels true for her. i think because finley’s the one who hooked up with her fiancee, she’s sort of permanently barred from being in her feelings around dani.
Oh no doubt, the inappropriate questions were the first red flag to me that Finley was already intoxicated like Carrie was.
I do think Dani is underestimating the kind of stigma and discomfort placed on Finley’s severe issues-whatever plays out on the show, systematically, the revelation of an addiction can cost people relationships, jobs, housing etc. Dani thinks Finley is unconditionally supported in a way she’s not, in reality Finley mostly gets some of what she actually asks for. For a dozen reasons Finley should never have asked Dani for anything let alone advice.
Counterpoint (and in defense of Riese’s point): The fact that we’ve witnessed a few people offer to hold her does not invalidate the experiences that have made her who she is to date. There’s a reason why she feels the need to be strong even when there are people offering a shoulder. It’s because that’s what she has had to get used to. And that type of trauma takes time and patience to break down – which is what Sophie didn’t have, which is why it didn’t work out between them. The patience is what Gigi seems to have and that’s why they seem to be working so far.
Totally agree with you here. You forgot that half (or more) of last season, Sophie tried fruitlessly to be there as a shoulder and an ear for Dani but Dani preferred solitude and snapped when Sophie tried to breach it.
yep, absolutely. it was like dani’s most emphasized quality.
Yeah, as much as I was screaming and hiding during this scene, I do think it’s interesting to see the juxtaposition of these two characters. When Dani said that, I was like whaat? Everyone is comforting you! Sophie cancelled on Finley after you said you never wanted to see her again to go be with you, after a full season of trying to be there for you and hold you! Bette yelled at Sophie at poker on your behalf and gave you tartine! Micah told everyone to be nice to you at karaoke! Meanwhile, I feel like everyone is mean to Finley and acts like she’s annoying. And while Dani’s dad is problematic, at least he’s there, whereas it seems like Finley’s family has rejected her completely. But I do get the point that in the end Sophie chose Finley, so she’s held in the ultimate way?
Dani would probably feel a lot better if she could see the comments on Twitter when I search “Sophie Finley” that always hurt my feelings way more than they should!
Yes, they hurt my feelings too! Gosh, I feel you on looking at those tweets, thought I was the only one who did that. Haven’t looked for the past two episodes because of my fear on how bad they will be. Would love for Dani to know that majority of people have the same feelings as her right now, on multiple platforms too.
As a Dani apologist,I think Dani gets preoccupied with how her feelings and her failings can complicate what people think of her, and I think she’s terrible at accepting comfort until she can figure out exactly why it’s been offered, and also that she’s deeply envious of how much simpler it seems for Finley to endear herself to people.
It takes Dani so long to get comfortable with the idea of being held by someone, and then all the people stepping up to hold her have these very specific ideas about who and how she is (except Gigi!) and I don’t know that she can be held by them and also let go of whatever expectations she thinks they have at the same time.
Also, Finley’s side of the street isn’t so rosy, but she and Sophie have largely been accepted and embraced as a couple into spaces that Dani also frequents and I think she’s acutely aware of how many people think she’s too cold or maybe pragmatic to worry after.
In S1 Dani always explicitly stated or showed that her job, her thoughts, her emotions, and her life are so taxing and complicated that she had no time to be available to/for anyone. Intimating that most of the time would have anyone seeing her as cold and too but that didn’t stop Sophie from still trying for nearly an entire season. Micah has always been there. Bette was there S1 when Dani was feuding with her dad and now. And as crappy as her dad can be, he too has tried to be there in the only way he knows how. The expectations/ideas Dani thinks people have of her are internalized and/or self-imposed.
Heartbreak can be traumatic but it can also be curative and eye-opening and we all began to see a different Dani even before she and Gigi started hanging out. Gigi’s inquisitive, nurturing, and honest nature happened along at just the right time. There is no doubt in my mind that if S1 Dani and Gigi interacted Dani would’ve siloed herself from her too because that was the space she lived in.
I felt this brewing in previous episodes but it looks more and more like they’re going to explore the tension between chemistry and long-term goals/lifestyle with Sophie and Finley. And I’m interested to see how it plays out! You have Finley on one end of the spectrum in terms of economic and cultural capital… and Dani on the other. Sophie’s at this weird in-between place because her background is humble, but she still has all these dreams/ambitions to succeed in the (presumably) elitist world of television, right? And they have suggested that the security Dani provided played into that dynamic with Sophie, yes? I actually think that they’ll try to be nuanced about this, since they tend to handle Finley’s arcs with more care than others.
My favorite thing about this season is that they really try to flesh everyone out so that everyone has their charms and faults. Bette was so terrible to Carrie earlier this season… but Tina’s fiancée kind of had it coming to her this episode.
Yeah I was excited for them to explore that too because it is such a huge departure. it’s also one i relate to (going from dating someone who had their shit together and a supportive family to someone in the opposite situation.)
I’m curious how that’ll play out because that DUI is gonna saddle Finley with a ton of *unexpected expenses*, a temporary drivers license suspension, and DUI classes that’ll potentially put constraints on her time and all of this could be a barrier to employment. it’s gonna be a difficult place from which to get her shit together, and none of it will necessarily prevent her from continuing to drink.
I have a feeling this is also leading towards an intersecting arc with Tess, which I very much hope is this case. I also hope we might get more of a sense of how the through-line of shame and grappling with religion from S1 (which seems largely to be dropped this season, except implicitly in terms of Finley thinking she is never enough) plays out via her addiction and masking feeling, discomfort, shame with alcohol. I’m glad the show is grappling with these issues, which feel like they have real stakes — in real lived experience (the conservative religion/queer and trans/addiction/destructive swathe it causes are very real in my own family context, played out different in my sibling’s and my lives), if not always fully realized in the world of the show… and even if it does underscore how much they botched the opioid talking point/Kit’s overdose in season 1.
On an unrelated note: do we assume
Micah decamped to another location to avoid being party to the sex marathon? That was convenient for Sophie and Finley. (Maybe he is canoodling with Gigi’s knit turtle-arms?)
As always caitrw we’re on the same page, I have been longing for a Tess/Finley addiction storyline since s1! Tess has a very nurturing quality to her and is less likely than the other characters to normalise Finley’s problematic drinking. I remain extremely disappointed in Sophie for continually ignoring it – however one shift for me is I’m disappointed in Sophie herself and not the writing, indicating (to me, at least) that the writing has improved and become less uneven these past two episodes.
On that note, DUI aside Finley has been her best self for the majority of these past two episodes. I applauded her calling Sophie out last episode. And I felt like she seemed more comfortable in her skin in this ep, in a way that we haven’t really seen her before – whilst I still don’t feel Sophie respects her in the way she deserves, its undeniable that being ‘chosen’ and loved by Sophie has done wonders for Finley’s confidence already. I loved Finley support of Sophie in the green room, her schmoozing at the gala, and I especially liked her calling Sophie out for her patronising questions about her being able to look after herself.
I also wondered where the hell Micah had gotten to. I hope Maribel apologises to him next episode and admits that she got in her own head and lashed out at him for it.
Yes to all this ChaoticUnicorn, especially feeling like Finley is becoming one of the characters who most verbalizes her feelings (at times in ways that transgress boundaries, aka the scene with Dani in this episode).
While the writing can be uneven I do admire how the show seems committed to drawing out the complexity of each of the characters (to greater and lesser degrees, depending on the character), no small feat with such a large ensemble and a relatively small number of episodes. As a result certain plot points seem to fall of the face of the earth but tbh in this show I care way more about the characters and their relationships to themselves and one another than I do about getting a satisfying corporate-fraud-jail storyline etc.
Sometimes it does feel like the characters complexity is due to poor writing (eg Maribel last episode) but increasingly it feels consistent (as you said, with the ways Sophie is unreliable or judgemental or self-absorbed… The casually cruel tone of that kitchen conversation with Finley… yikes. I guess I’m officially a Finley apologist?)
Unrelated: I do hope we see Sophie’s mom and grandma this season! Where are they? Hawaii?
The one picture of Sophie and Tess in episode 9 (? I think) gives me hope that Tess will indeed intersect with this arc, and that Sophie will play into also. I am so interested in that!
And agreed on Micah – for his sake, I was very glad he wasn’t there for the sex marathon, but I didn’t think that meant he would have to leave for the whole episode! I would’ve thought he’d gone to hang at Dani’s very large apartment (although maybe for the best he didn’t because he probably would have accidentally told her every detail of Sinley, as is his way.)
yes when i saw that pic of Tess and Sophie I thought the same thing (but couldn’t say so bc nobody else had seen the episode yet!) i was like peering in like “those are large drink glasses which means Sophie isn’t drinking which means they’re probably not at a chance encounter at a bar which means they are talking about getting Finley sober.”
Also I assume a DUI means the end of refing kids soccer (for awhile at least)?
I can’t figure out how to reply to your reply above but just wanted to add that I support your theory about Sophie’s family being in Hawaii. Maybe they’re still waiting for the wedding? Is Sophie’s grandma even out of hospital??
For some reason I actually thought Finley was sober before they got in the car (at least until she took a swig from the flask). I guess because Sophie was SO drunk and Finley was taking on the role of ‘the sensible one’ getting her into the car and laughing at her antics. I thought that could have been an interesting viewpoint. Though as I type this I recall a similar dynamic after ‘bro night’ last season. So I suppose actually it speaks more to Finley’s higher alcohol tolerance due to constantly drinking. I think I just assumed Sophie would be more responsible than to allow either of them to drive intoxicated, given her preoccupation with what others think of her and need to preserve her social standing at work.
And I guess this looming DUI could be the thing to throw Finley’s alcohol issues into the open. The fear in her eyes at the end… I can’t work out if that’s just a general “fuck it’s the cops” or if there’s also some trauma/backstory there in relation to the law?
yes grandma was at the wedding!
when they enter the venue, Finley says “let’s get drinks” and they do and then Barry buys them another round of drinks. And I think if sophie had drunk that whole flask by herself she might be dead!
i agree that it speaks to just Finley having a higher alcohol tolerance, so I don’t know if she was *sober* or not when she got into the car or if we were supposed to think that she considered herself sober. But even just two drinks and a huge gulp from a flask is enough to blow over a .08, so she shouldn’t have been driving!
and yeah same vibe w/r/t Finley at the end. i was like, this feels like … more. i wasn’t sure if it was “fuck i lied about being sober enough to drive” or “fuck i have a prior” or “fuck i shouldn’t have stuck my hand down sophie’s pants while driving bc that swerving got me pulled over” or “i’m good to drive but def not good enough to pass this breathalizer”
I was actually joking about them being in Hawaii, just a strange shift to have them so present last season and so absent this one (despite Maribel’s much greater role).
I had a similar thought about that closing moment/shot… It seemed like the silent panic and the pained look suggests some kind of prior history or backstory or experience that goes beyond more than just “shit, I’m too drunk to really be driving and the cops are going to realize,” particularly since Finley hasn’t seemed that self-aware about earlier prior questionable decisions (cf: the stolen bike that was basically a character in the ensemble during s1).
Just wanted to note, Nat was having brunch/lunch with Gigi in the beginning of the episode. Not Dani, like the recap says.
I’m so ready to see how Bette reconciles being a passing bi-racial woman who is now for the first time (that we’ve seen) in a relationship with a woman who is definitively black. That conversation with Carrie about the oppression Olympics was very, very interesting. The experiences that Pippa has likely lived just walking through the world with people telling her she can’t subtly and overtly as soon as she walks through the door or even passes by or opens her mouth would lap Bette’s experiences many times over in the oppression Olympics. Also, Pippa seems very in touch with her feelings and has no qualms about speaking them or her truth which Bette has shown she’s not so good with for herself nor is she good at accepting from others unless she seeks it.
I need Finley’s backstory to understand how this Peter Pan thing she’s got going on came to be. Don’t get me wrong, I find her adorable and sweet and goofy like a love-starved labrador puppy but where does her disconnect stem from?
Lastly, I want to take the Master’s or doctorate classes that taught Dani that kind of willpower. It has to be some Rhodes scholar/MacArthur grant level type shit. I mean she said NO…to Gigi…mid-kiss….how Sway? HOW?
I’m so excited to see Bette with Pippa. She’s been monstrous for a lot of this season, but there was something so specific about how she employed her racial trauma to deflect from Carrie essentially calling her a bully.
Since Bette mentioned that she hasn’t even begun to reckon with her Blackness and queerness like Pippa has, and since Angie really needs Bette to get that they walk different paths, I’m hoping it translates to something more thoughtful and less defensive than what we’ve seen from her so far.
I agree with you here and would like to add that Bette doesn’t like to reckon with anything, preferring to deflect or play victim most of the time except maybe as it pertains to Angie, and even then it’s a struggle for her.
The only people who have been able to hold Bette’s feet to the fire (and let those bitches burn until she wisened up) were Kit and Jodi. Kit is gone and they wrote Jodi so horribly in the end that I only care to think about how she was when she and Bette first got together.
Gotta pour one out Kit and S4 Jodi. I miss them immensely and wish Pippa strength in trying to remind Bette that a little uncertainty and discomfort are worth it for growth.
Compared to how much fun last week’s episode was, this one was…fine, I guess. There’s a frustrating sense of inertia surrounding a lot of these characters right now, not to mention all the poor communication which can be grating to watch at times. Halfway through my mind started to wander to other things such as Helena Peabody and how IMDb said she would be in episode 2.03 and then she wasn’t.
This recap was great as always, and the quote of the week is spot on because Dani talking about how nobody holds her when she needs it broke my heart into a million small pieces. She definitely cried in Bette’s arms before, but whatever! I’m really rooting for her which is a nice surprise because I was not at all invested in her character last season. All I want is for her and Gigi to be hot and happy together and for us as lesbians to be given the Helena Peabody appearance that we were promised!
yeah my feelings on dani have turned around entirely, i’m very into her now, which i think is in part because she’s actually undergoing a psychological evolution
Yes that’s exactly it! The CEO stuff doesn’t interest me but her arc as a whole definitely does, especially now that she and Sophie are both moving on into these better relationships where they can potentially get what they want.
yes i agree 100! it’s like one of the more complicated and interesting storylines going on this season, and it feels intentional whereas many of the other storylines can feel just like, uneven
We BETTER be building up to a magnificent prom episode. The writers owe this to Jordi and to me. What if: all the parent/teacher prom chaperones are somehow mysteriously diverted, leaving L.A.’s coolest queers and their friend Tina to step in and save the day. As they take their posts around an outrageously well-lit high school gymnasium, we rehash and resolve each of the season’s dramas until the moment when Jordi is crowned Queen and our messy adults bow to her. Having accomplished her goal, Jordi finally has time to fully process Angie’s feelings about Marcus Allenwood.
Bette having sex *inside* The Art might be the most L-Word scene I have ever seen.
Fantastic recap this week. The picture of Alice with the “Hello yes I’ll have the Medium Picnic Box with curly fries and a turkey sandwich?” made me do a literal spit-take.
I am so glad Dani & Gigi finally kissed this week, because if they had not I would’ve been UPSET. They are def the most emotionally mature people on this show right now (and the hottest) and I am here for it.
Bette and Pippa having sex INSIDE the art, though!? And when they put their hands through the light, and it was like some Star Wars forcefield type thing? DAMN. The people who designed and choreographed that scene deserve an award. Just gorgeous.
I honestly don’t care about much on this show except who is kissing whom, and there sure was a lot of kissing (in the rain!) on this episode. (Whenever there’s a kissing in the rain bit on TV/movies I always just think of the rain episode from The O.C. when Marisa kissed Alex and we all lost our minds because we didn’t think they’d actually go there on a teen show on Fox. Good times.)
Gini hive rise!! I’m happy for everyone who kissed this week (except Nat and Alice b/c yay closure but boo getting that closure after hooking up with the dude who is thrilled about everything except nonmonogamy), but most happy for Dani and Gigi.
Not sure I get why Dani is so deeply convinced that Bette even remembers Gigi’s area code, but I’m glad she survived the casual unsolicited Gigi bashing and got over it. Even less sure how she resisted being invited in to Gigi’s beautiful loft with exposed brick, but all good things in due time.
That Bette and Pippa scene was gorgeous but did also briefly make me think of Candyman (2021). Breathtaking lighting. A big win for Mommi culture.
Is Jordi a jerk now? They’ve gotta know that if you’re employing Jordan Hull’s sad face then I’m inclined to be upset with whoever is responsible for that face, and I’m tired of Jordi fully ignoring her big life stuff. Did we ever find out if Angie told her moms about Kayla because she really wanted to or if Jordi bailed on her? I’m not loving that the friendship part of their relationship hasn’t followed them into S2.
Carrie and Sophie and Finley all gave me heartburn, but I will say #justiceforcarrie who should’ve stopped at “it feels bad being around you” which is a broad truth when non-elite artists and/or people Bette doesn’t aspire to bang meet Bette in person.
It is wild of Carrie to push so hard for a friendship when Bette tries to draw a fair boundary with her, and esp. on a night when Bette clearly has plans, but as Carrie drank herself into oblivion and Bette more pointedly mean, I thought about Max who quietly swallowed the slights of everyone around him while trying to be their friend, and it seemed a little proactive for Carrie to ask them to put in some effort.
Ahem, JORDI IS NOT A JERK. She unsurprisingly has the interests, attention span, and emotional skills of a teen girl. She obviously really cares about Angie. There wouldn’t be so much pressure on Jordi to be Angie’s primary support person if Bette wasn’t such a self-absorbed and lousy parent.
In all seriousness, I was the Angie in this scenario when I was in high school and I only realized much later that I kept asking my peers to do emotional labor way beyond their capacity because my parents were neglectful and dysfunctional. This is on TiBette, especially Bette.
I know Jordi is a teenager, but she really seems like a jerk to me too! Angie wanting to talk about her Dad and her just straight-up ignoring her or cutting her off every time … it’s not Jordi’s responsibility to hold Angie where her parents don’t, but i don’t think “showing interest in one’s partner’s interests” is too much to ask, even of a teenager.
I cannot stand for this Jordi slander. Jordi has already spent PLENTY of time listening to Angie talk about her hot dysfunctional mother and the complex situation of wanting to donate a kidney to her sperm donor. Maybe she’s getting tired of hearing about heavy topics and doesn’t know how to set boundaries so she changes the subject.
I agree that Bette and Tina should be showing up even more for Angie, but I’ll also maintain that it’s really unfair of Jordi to check all the way out of Angie’s emotional stuff and to instead ask Angie to focus more on Jordi’s prom stuff. They’re kids, and I get that, but it doesn’t hurt Angie any less to know that her girlfriend would rather interrupt her mid-sentence than let her vent about things that seem to have happened in the last 7 days.
I didn’t quite get it the first time that Angie mentioned feeling like she and Jordi were on different vibes, but actually she was right. I still have plenty of love for Jordi, but I don’t want to watch Angie squash all her feelings into a box and plaster on a smile just to make Jordi’s prom campaign smoother.
I really wish they could change course on the impending death of Marcus Allenwood tbh, bc that strange, amorphous grief that Angie is already feeling is so heavy and I just can’t abide by other characters not seeing that it might eclipse a few kid things. Like I did not not need TLW: Generation Grief and yet.
Agreed! Let Jordi be a kid! Angie isn’t exactly expressing any interest in Jordi’s life right now, but Jordi still took the time to plan a gorgeous prom-posal to let Angie know she cares about her!
I also don’t like the way Carrie is portrayed. I read the comments about Rosie’s input, I just wish we had more butch characters or someone stood up to Carrie, showed her actual support and admiration. I’ve always been a Bette and Tina fan, but it’s been hard too cheer them on. Bette is just downright awful, especially with Gigi and Carrie. It’s shocking to see that, after so many years, her character didn’t evolve at all. She’s actually more cruel now, and I find that very upsetting. If Bette and Tina do get back together, it won’t make much sense for Tina, and it will mean a very bad ending for Carrie.
I think the Gigi-Dani storyline is the best one so far. It always frustrates me to see unhealthy dynamics and lack of communication, and we see so much of that on the show. I really like the fact that Gigi and Dani actually talk and try to work out their concerns. Hope to see more of them!
(Love your recaps, by the way!)
*I wish someone stood up FOR Carrie, I mean*
This episode was another wild ride. It was a good one all in all. Really liked the acting, especially in the Carrie x Bette fight, and of course in that swoonworthy scene with Dani x Gigi (my heart grew three sizes). I just don’t see why we get so many Sophie x Finley scenes…
Cause they sexy
My thoughts exactly, Goopy! I would watch a spin-off of just their sex scenes
I’m with you here Lauwer
Agreed! Rosie’s acting in this episode was excellent. Also, I find Finley hilarious and like seeing her onscreen but there seems to be a heavy amount of Sophie and Finley compared to the others.
well you did it again making me laugh with a shitshow of gen q airing the crap writing and producing etc god help us lesbos with life affirming gayity at least thats wat we have just no representation of long lasting relationships everyone is clsuterfucking around and its diabolical i mean the way its going i would be very suprised if series 3 happens and to think km lh and jb are telling stories from real life relationship longgevity ummmm i am still waiting to see that btw lol
something I have been clocking … the casual fat phobia in the writing.
I don’t know if other people are noticing this but I find it very jarring. characters casually make comments about their bodies and weight in a way that is self-loathing and sad
last week while talking to Alice about attending his ex’s wedding, Tom makes some comment about needing to go on a slimfast diet or something
this week while conversing with Bette about her vulnerabilities as an artist, Pippa says ‘here I am .. years later, and pounds later …’ it really threw me when I heard that. I was like, ‘did I hear that right? pounds later?’ not only is it sad, also seems totally out of character for a badass artist like Pippa to slip that into that particular conversation.
and of course the issue with basically the only fat character on the show talking about being in ‘Overeater’s Anonymous’. which I’m not even going to get into here (seems like some of you talking about it above already).
the fact that these things are making it into the dialogue tells me no one in the writer’s room is catching any of this or registering it as an issue. it’s pretty disappointing and I think really weird and dated, considering the fact that we have other tv offerings that are more conscious about the way we talk about size and bodies these days …
I don’t think it’s fatphobic to talk about weight and wanting to lose weight. I think it’s fatphobic to talk about, denigrate, isolate, or abuse someone because of their weight.
People do talk about weight in general conversation all the time. I definitely do now that I’m older and it’s taking more work to stay in shape. For me the mentions about weight that you posted are ones that come out of mine and my friends’ mouths all the time. There are many, many people in this world who are over eaters and gay. Just because it’s not one person’s experience doesn’t mean it’s bad representation.
To me Carrie is by far more realistic and representative of the gay ladies I’ve met than any other character on the show except maybe Finley.
it is indeed fatphobic to normalize diet culture.
talking about dieting and weight loss in regular conversation as a way to self-deprecate/self-criticize (which was the case in both Tom’s and Pippa’s comments) can be immensely triggering for fat folks and people who have eating disorders, and just because it has been normalized in the fat phobic society we live in, doesn’t mean that it’s not something we should take a closer look at and interrogate.
I actually don’t have an issue with Carrie talking about her insecurities at all, if the writing on the show had shown itself to be actually conscious of diet culture and how it affects us.. but it doesn’t.
If the ONLY conversation about weight and larger bodies is negative, then yeah, it’s fatphobic. Diet culture in general is, by definition, fatphobic. To have a bunch of complex, complicated characters but only have the ones who are outsiders talk about their weight is fatphobic. To have literally no positive representation of larger bodies is fatphobic. Hell, even the people making these fatphobic comments are, in fact, not that large. Imagine what would happen if this show actually had someone with a waist size over 40 inches? The lack of characters of size in and of itself is fatphobic.
We can like the show and be honest about this. In this way, it’s reflecting the same shitty standards reality has. Even if the statements made sound “normal”, that just means fatphobia is normalized (and this show is helping continue that).
Yes, I’ve noticed this too! Pippa’s line about “30 years and 30 pounds ago” was so unnecessary and felt out of character for someone who seems to have such a “fuck you” attitude to societal norms. I hated the OA reference. As a fat butch, I love Carrie and my heart dropped at that moment. I get that they wanted to highlight that in addition to class differences, Carrie doesn’t fit into the very thin and glamorous LA crowd, but there are better ways to do that.
As for this being a common way that people speak about weight, that doesn’t make it any less fatphobic. If you are openly lamenting your weight gain in front of others, I hope you don’t have fat friends because it hurts a lot to hear how much your loved ones dread the idea of looking like you.
I also think it’s notable that in a show where everyone is sleeping together all the time, the only fat character is relatively sexless. I’m going to assume we’re not going to get a Carrie/Tina sex scene and that makes sense with the storyline they have now, but I have a hard time imagining this show ever portraying a fat character as a sexual being.
Pippa’s “30 pounds” line totally threw me for a loop too! It seemed so out of character and was really jarring.
I truly do not understand how simply talking about weight is fatphobic and I’d like someone to educate me. I’ve gained 25lbs during the pandemic and have talked about it to people thinking it was ok but am I fatphobic? I totally understand how the show is fatphobic because it has no rep for overweight people but based on what all of you are saying it feels like talking about weight period is also fatphobic. Looking for civil discourse only please.
Confuzzled, the pandemic weight gain trope is a good example of a way in which it’s possible to accidentally rub fatter friends the wrong way depending on how/why you talk about it.
Keep in mind that most people talk about ANY weight gain as if it is negative and a sign of personal failure that we ought to be embarrassed by. This is so common that most of us don’t even question it. If you’re talking to someone fatter than you, and you give the impression that gaining weight is something previously unthinkable and that you can’t wait to lose that weight, they may take that as a sign that you are disgusted by your body looking more like theirs.
One question I would have is, how much do you really need to talk about that weight gain with friends? Do you feel like you owe them an explanation? Because you don’t and they probably don’t care. I gained roughly the same amount of weight during the pandemic, and I am making a point of not talking about it except maybe to neutrally mention that I need some new clothes.
I have 3 friends who are bigger and they talk about weight far more than I did before and since my weight gain. I’ve always been supportive no matter what avenue they’ve chosen whether it’s loving themselves the way they are or wanting to lose the weight for health reasons (one friend is diabetic). Right now my body doesn’t feel like mine and my friends have seen the toll it’s taken on me and they’ve been just as supportive of me now as they were when I felt the same way after losing my hair. We talk about our insecurities as a way to work through them because we’ve provided a safe place to do so. I don’t talk about my weight around strangers or acquaintances regardless of size because it’s none of their business and I never fat shame or allow anyone else to fat shame but based on this thread it still seems like I’m fatphobic for simply talking about weight.
It sounds like your friends are comfortable discussing that insecurity and hearing you discuss it. No need to change. It can take on unhealthy forms for sure, but if it’s something that gives you relief to verbalize and your friends aren’t uncomfortable (heck, you could even ask them and that itself could be a discussion), then it should be no problem. In fact, if you feel like you have to suppress your feelings and not talk about them cause of just the idea that you’re saying something that someone somewhere would find offensive, it could create a whole shame complex about the entire subject in general. I don’t think that’s necessary or healthy and you’re not protecting anyone by doing that. It sounds like you have trust and intimacy in your friendships that makes these things less rigid and black and white. Good for you.
I think part of what feels weird is that the only people concerned about their weight are Carrie, Tom, and Pippa, all outsiders, and that they’re all preoccupied with fatness in a way that’s compared to the main cast.
Like I’m not bothered irl if someone feels like weight loss is for them, but I don’t love being given like 10 main characters who are uniformly very slim despite one of them subsisting on booze and cheerios, who seem to trigger in other people weird ideas about body image, while they don’t talk or apparently think about weight themselves at all.
It is incredibly strange that Tom’s body is the fattest body that we’ve seen have sex or be desired and he’s not even fat?
Carrie strikes me as an insecure person period. Compared to Tina’s friends and the LA scene she feels unattractive, uncultured and fat. Tom is also insecure being in LA and in particular the industry. Pippa has made a point of talking also about how she doesn’t fit in and being shunned many times for a variety of reasons. I saw the weight thing was her way of pointing out how the art world wouldn’t accept her as a 20 something talented skinny black woman so why would she believe that they would accept her now as a 50 something talented black woman with more weight on her. Your post was that they are outsiders and the only ones talking about weight but if I remember in S1 Bette and Alice both talked about weight and body changes with age. They are both skinny but it has been talked about.
I get what you’re saying though. I guess I see it as people talking about what makes them insecure but maybe I need to examine that viewpoint more.
give Shrill a watch some time. also great resources here:
https://www.yourfatfriend.com
many of us have internalized shame about fatness and having non-normative bodies. I just wish on a show that has made such strides celebrating other forms of non-normativity that size was on that list as well. it’s just a reminder of how far some queer media (and the queer community) still has to go.
Andddd I see what I just did there. I talked about my weight gain amongst strangers and I didn’t have to. I know intent doesn’t minimize impact but I did mention it only to provide context about my relationships with my friends and the conversations we’ve had.
totally agree. It’s very dissonant to see this whole cast of characters and even extras who are uniformly very slim, and then to have only a couple of characters who are marginally bigger (but not actually fat) and they talk about their bodies in such a diet culture steeped way. When Carrie talked about OA I was super disappointed that the writers had decided to make that part of her characterization. And then when Pippa made that “30 pounds” comment, I thought it was SUPER out of character for her, and was also like “girl only gained 30 pounds in 30 ENTIRE YEARS and she’s lamenting that like it’s a big deal??” These are things that might seem like throwaway references, but they stand out to viewers who are conscious of the deep fatphobia of most media, and they are also things that could easily be cut from the dialogue without sacrificing any of each character’s existing complexity.
It’s interesting that a show that is considered “progressive” would take such a 1950’s approach to body type. The women on this show all have thin bodies, with the exception of Carrie and she is shown as incredibly insecure. This sends the message that only thin people can feel good about themselves. I am surprised the show writers don’t seem to be aware or care about this. Unless, the studio execs don’t want the L Word Gen Q to be a show that has fat lesbians in it.
I’m so glad to see this comment. This fatphobia hurts. The original L Word was dismal in many ways but it didn’t have the same diet culture we’ve been getting this season. I would rather the original “let’s pretend fat people don’t exist” than the writing this season.
Overeating comes as a result of restriction, and OA does incredible harm to people and normalizes the lie that fat people are fat because they have an addiction to food or that food addiction even exists. The show didn’t take a stance on it either way and obviously Carrie was lying about going to it but I was disgusted nonetheless that the only fat representation on this show has to be someone who hates their body.
There have been studies showing that fat queer women (not sure if research was just in cis women) are healthier (mentally/physically) because they experience less weight stigma than straight women. It would be amazing that Gen Q
Dang it, didn’t mean to hit submit! To finish that thought, it would be amazing in Gen Q actually showcased the way that the queer community allows a broader range of body sizes and shapes into what’s considered conventionally attractive as a more realistic portrayal of our community.
Instead as a fat queer person I am watching a show that has no idea that there are fat people who don’t have an issue with our body. Instead of the constant diet culture BS it would be incredible to acknowledge the role weight stigma plays in oppression while not making Carrie show internalized fatphobia.
Loved the recap! I realize I am in a very small minority of viewers, but Dani and Gigi has felt inevitable to me since their first conversation so the suspense has been lost on me and I don’t really care about them, but I’m happy everyone’s happy and that maybe the Gen Q-ers can all be friends again, something that has been stressing me out since Season 1, Episode 6!
Just a quick thought, what if in ALOCE show logo, the “I” is not supposed to be the lips, but the gap in between them…
this comment deeper than Al()ce’s entire show
I truly thought Finley & Sophie were hurling towards a horrific car accident with the drinking & the heavy rain – so I’m actually relieved they got pulled over. Still a terrifying scenario, but at least no one is dying!
& My heart actually broke a little at Carrie’s “I don’t think I can marry Tina” – I like Tina so much more with them together! &&& it feels like the writers are rolling towards a set-up for Bette to be torn between Pippa and Tina, which is just aldneosbxuwab
I immediately choked up when Carrie said that. Rosie is fucking great.
I also prefer Tina with Carrie and have a feeling that’s going to be destroyed 😑
Oh nooooo I do not want that! When Bette is with Pippa, we get to see her non-mean side, but she’s just terrible with and around Tina. These days, I’m so ready to move on from TiBette drama and have Tina be more self-assured and thrive with Carrie! Plus, Angie is pro-Carrie, so I want her to get Tina with Carrie! But alas, this is a soap opera
60+ comments in less than 24 hours?! Clearly we all had feelings about this episode. I thought the direction was really awesome, but no surprises there because Rose Troche is such a pro. I was disappointed that Micah was completely omitted from the episode.
I think I’m in the minority of viewers who doesn’t ship any of the couplings. Literally none of them. I think Sophie and Finley are clearly headed for trouble because the narrative is going to punish them for the affair and hurting Dani, who is being treated as a martyr this entire season. Tess and Shane make no sense to me because Shane literally fucked Tess’s then-partner and that’s…fine, I guess? Nat and Alice have awesome chemistry but in this iteration of the series, Alice is uninformed and obstinate re: nonmonogamy. We all know Bette sabotages all of her relationships so no, I don’t think Pippa will last long. And as many people have pointed out, Micah and Maribel’s relationship was rushed.
I do want to shout out the makeup artists and hairstylists for Vanessa Williams. Her hair looked so good and she is absolutely radiant! I hope I look that good when I’m her age.
Maybe Micah took Riese’s advice and moved to North Dakota following the Maribel debacle.
well if he did i hope he is having a nice time!
Dani as a martyr is so accurate – I feel like so many bad things are happening to her, but I struggle to really care because it feels so heavy handed. And it really lets her off the hook for her part in her and Sophie’s relationship issues
Thank you! For saying this! Everyone is like “I like Dani so much more this season” and it’s like, well, how could she not be more likeable? She has been betrayed throughout the season, and feeling betrayed and blindsided is universally relatable. Someone on the podcast said that Sophie is Gen Q’s incarnation of Bette, but I disagree. It’s clearly Dani–privileged background, career-driven, hates feelings, gorgeous so her unkindness towards her loved ones is instantly forgiven.
I completely agree that Dani is the Bette! Sophie is way too into processing feelings to be Bette, and she’s so dedicated to her family and friends I could never see her put her career before her relationships.
But yeah, I feel like they’re really going above and beyond to make Dani as sympathetic as possible – like obviously we’re gonna feel bad for the character who was left on her wedding day, and whose apparently only living relative is in prison. And then pair her with Gigi, obviously we’re going to root for them! I don’t know why that is, but my personal theory is that Rosanny Zayas is just such a good actor that they know they can make Sophie harder to root for, haha.
Haha, let’s go with that theory. Rosanny Zayas is damn good!
That is also my favorite Sophie theory!
The absolute best part of the original L Word? The recaps on After Ellen. I would laugh so hard that I would have tears running down my face. And now you’re back (well, I guess you didn’t really go anywhere)! So great to read your amazingly funny recaps once again👍🏻
Oof I want Micah and Maribel and Tom back and Nat to only ever appear separate from Alice. Maybe they’ll get to the point of realizing that Nat being poly and Alice being bi aren’t comparable after all and then we can move on? Awesome recap – they’re even more appreciated on the cringe episodes
1. I realize the LWord exists in its own world , so maybe I’m confused, but why is Prom in September?
2. I let this go, but it still bugs me. No one, I repeat no one, in a co-parenting relationship would agree to each bring half the cupcakes to a school event. That’s stupid and I will die on that cupcake hill.
3. Shane was way more fun when she was sleeping on people’s couches and in random beds, not a fan of Tess, but LFG with Shane
Was anyone else kind of terrified when Carrie said she couldn’t live like this the rest of her life. Especially after we learned she’s had issues with depression. I feel like the show isn’t gonna have a suicide attempt or anything but for the sake of my well being I need Rosie O’Donnell to bumped to series regular so we can follow her as she navigates her mental health journey. Or better yet she gets a spin-off where we see her deal with everyday life as a silver foxed, depressed, butch in the city. You know what, I’ll just catch up on work in progress.
And even though I’m a Carrie apologist and think Bette has been acting crueler than usual this season, I was kind of on Bette’s side in their argument. While Bette has been mean to Carrie in the past and Tina needs to call her out on it, Bette is right in that she doesn’t need to have to try to be anything more than civil to her (which she has barely been in the past but still). Bette was surprisingly on her best behavior with Carrie this episode and politely tried to get out of the conversation multiple times.
It just felt like she was projecting her own issues onto Bette because the one time in the entire series when Bette is polite to her Carrie says it feels bad to be around her which felt uncalled for. Idk I have a lot of feeling about Carrie and adore her, but Bette just doesn’t owe her a relationship outside of maybe cops renting with Angie, she just owes her respect.
Also what is up with Jordi being so oblivious and unsupportive? I feel like this is the not the same girl we saw in the first season. I just feel like a person can be concerned about more than one thing at a time. Like she can be worried about prom and about what’s going on in her girlfriend life right?
I agree that Bette doesn’t owe Carrie anything but Bette does owe Angie a many things. Many times throughout this season we hear how Angie really likes Carrie and is excited for her to become part of their family. As for Carrie, I wouldn’t want to marry into a family where the co-parent of my new bride’s child actively doesn’t like me.
It felt like a Shane and Carmen throwback, driving to a charity event in Shane’s Jeep on the night when they finally got together.
I cannot be the only one who noticed the climax of Bette and Pippa’s sex scene directly mirrors the one of the first Bette and Tina sex scene!! Like am I seeing things?
I SAW IT TOO
no entiendo algunos comentarios sobre dani siendo una mártir; dani y sophie estaban mal, la relación debía terminar y todos sabemos como terminó; y como no sentirte una mierda cuando no te diste cuenta que no estaba funcionando, que tu pareja te engaño, con uno de tus amigos, que además vive en tu casa, que tu mejor amigo sabia de ello… es todo jodido.
mi personaje favorito es finley y me gustaba más con rebecca que sophie; espero que la historia entre finley y sophie mejore, esa seguridad que le da finley a sophie de ser quien es realmente, espero que no sea acosta de que finley pierda confianza en si misma.
Sí, si mi amigo se enterara de que su prometido la engañó en el altar, definitivamente les daría meses para actuar como un mártir. Honestamente, si guardaran rencor para siempre, eso sería totalmente aceptable para mí. Lo siento si la traducción es mala, estoy usando google.
This episode was a lot omg. As much as I love Sinley, it was sooo inappropriate for her to ask Dani about how to love sophie better. YOU BROKE UP THEIR WEDDING DUDE!!! I know I’m not a lesbian in a L.A. but like how do they live these incredibly messy lives and not die of embarrassment.
One thing I want from this show is more looks into our characters inner lives. Like we keep getting tiny bits and pieces and I wonder if we’re ever going to actually explore the characters inner lives. Like I’m so curious about Finely’s past, her relationship to religion and also alcohol and would like to more than what we’re getting now.
I feel so bad for Carrie and I get where her head is at when it comes to tina’s friends. The only thing tho, is that she really doesn’t have to be friends with Bette to co-parent.
Let me tell you, I SCREAMED when Shane and Tess kissed. I really love their relationship and hope it lasts for more than a couple episodes. They do work well together and are soooo cute ugh.
Not sure what’s going on with Jordie and Angie, but that promposal, while very cute, did not answer any questions about their issues.
Thanks again for the recap Riese, these are always so fun to read!
me too i am SO curioous about finley’s past. seriously could live with a great little flashback episode, you know??
Omg I loved your commentary about reading stories! Funny scene from the original.
thank you!!!
as a long term shane and tess shipper this episode brought me joy
Shane and Tess are giving me life! and your recaps are hilarious
I agree Bette owes Carrie nothing but I also agree with Carrie that I wouldn’t want to marry into a family where my spouse’s ex actively shunned me. And by the way they are portraying Bette this season, they are implying she knows that about Carrie.
I’m a divorced parent and I think Bette owes it to Angie to at least attempt niceness with Carrie. What kid wants to spend graduations and holidays in that hostile set up.
This episode highlighted some of the decisions the show made about certain characters and their motivations… that I wish were conceptualized and executed differently.
Shane from the original series was exactly the person who would have room for people that don’t fit in. Shane didn’t grow up with money and in the original series was someone who, while unable to not sabotage her relationships, had an honest, kind and open approach to people in moments when they needed it. It didn’t cost her anything and framed her as empathetic towards others.
The Shane we see here, who is vaguely uncomfortable with witnessing Carrie’s failure to carry the pain she is feeling, doesn’t seem like someone who went through foster care, homelessness, sex work for bare survival or someone with a sympathetic if aloof approach.
Yes, money could have changed her, but it’s not a change that feels like an exploration of character transformation, rather, a decision to frame the three original characters as wealthy, glamorous and privileged for the pitch of the show. Which is too bad, as I would be interested to know how did “I don’t care about your fancy lives, your money, your status” Shane became “my ex-wife took half of my money” Shane.
Additionally, Bette, while always a snob and narrow in her perspective… Uh. Elevating black artists, talking about experiences of discrimination, betrayal and pain that is directly tied to race… It’s a discussion about oppression, about the other, about people who were wounded in a very specific, deep way…
I just don’t think Pippa would be impressed with the way Bette treated Carrie.
Bette champions herself as having so much understanding and feeling for a marginalized group (that she is a part of) and as someone who will help elevate those voices and emancipate them… but then turns around and absolutely mauls someone from another marginalized group (that she is a part of), who is clumsy in her attempts to approach her, but is doing so with benevolence and desire for understanding and respect. Even if Carrie’s feelings stem from her own issues, couldn’t Bette opt for the civility she named rather than striking the finishing blow? She is in conflict with someone who is not in a good place and rather than being gracious, Bette decides to push the knife in deeper.
The way they wrote Bette in regards to Pippa, the idealization, idolization… Not even Pippa can live up to that. It makes be think about whether Bette is simply in love with the idea of Pippa, or more precisely, with how she feels when she looks at Pippa’s work – rather than Pippa herself or the importance of the work. It can be both, of course, but I don’t trust this show with nuance.
On a completely different note, Dani is my spirit animal and Gigi is the fantasy girlfriend molded out of my subconscious. Uncanny. Amazing.
Saying that Bette mauled Carrie is a gross exaggeration. She was, in fact, civil. Bette doesn’t owe her friendship, and she didn’t raise her voice or call Carrie out of her name.
Also, “spirit animal” is an inappropriate term to use if you’re not Native, and never in this context.
LWordwatcher: Bette has been cruel to Carrie and countless others since day one. I think you’re focusing a little too much on semantics here. Mew’s comment was insightful and clearly meant no harm.
I meant no malice with either phrase (thanks for letting me know about the second one – I don’t live in the US cultural landscape and sometimes miss the etiquette rules, I won’t use it again in this context) and since different people are hurt by different things, in different ways and levels, I don’t want to argue whether the phrasing around Bette’s behavior was exaggerated. That’s up to each of us to decide for ourselves.
I agree Carrie erred and that Bette has no obligation to be friends with her. It’s the level of punishment Bette elicits for that mistake that I was writing about.
Mew, I wholeheartedly agree with you.
Thank you, Katie!
That Dani quote hit a very similar spot like Finley’s “Don’t you know how to shove it way down and never talk about it?” I wish Finley just stuck to saying sorry and not asking for anything from Dani. It was not the place. Especially about Sophie. Dani’s projection to Finley is also…not the right person too. Guess that’s what Finley gets. One is struggling to not be a mess, and one is struggling to let herself be a mess. I’ve been on this spectrum! My feelings about Dani definitely flipped this season as well, but I’m a Finley apologist. So I want them both to overcome it.
After last episode, I expected a Sinley opening sex montage, and I got just that! I happily take it all, because it’s about damn time. I love that Alice is a fan of Sinley, because a lot of what I love about Sinley is similar to DAlice. The best friends that we didn’t expect to be in love with each other by the end of season 1. The “you’re my favorite person/part of the day.” Although, DAlice’s cheating felt more justifiable because Tonya? Sinley is also the root to my anxiety. I’m very nervous they will be DAlice’d, but I’m hoping that’s what they “undo” in Gen Q.
As a Bettina’s shipper in OG TLW (but really I just shipped Bette in OG like how I ship Gigi in GQ, with anyone), I do not want them to get together! We don’t need this again!
Yes!! This whole time I have felt the same way, that Sinley is a Dana/Alice situation! Which also makes me nervous, as I definitely think Finley is the Alice here and we all know what happened next for them. I kinda wish it would be discussed openly honestly because I think that would be a really cute convo for Sophie and Alice to have!
All the cute stuff they said to each other on the bike in s1 also reminded me of when dana told alice “you’re my favorite person to do stuff with, i love doing stuff with you”
Tuna Town: the name of my new band. I love your recaps. I look forward to them just as much as I look forward to the new episodes of this show. I wish seasons were longer! Screaming about Finley and Sophie because I genuinely love them together but OOF. Big yikes!
Was this there first episode this season with the same amount of squabbles and sex scenes? It feels like there are always more squabbles!
Also, the sex scene between Bette and Pippa was suuuper hot, but I could go the rest of my life without hearing “train to tuna town” ever again. 😫
this episode are amazing.thanks for sharing these information with all of us.