There are many things to be said for Logo’s “guilty pleasure” lesbian reality docusoap Gimme Sugar: Miami, returning “just in time for bikini season” on June 22nd and dishing out new episodes all summer long (Episode Four premieres this Monday July 13th). Firstly; the show is relatively racially diverse (and effortlessly so). Secondly: There are hot girls in it. Thirdly: These girls often take off their clothing or are wearing very little to begin with. Fourthly: Charlene — who we interviewed this week — is super-sweet and she told us that she reads & responds to every fan e-mail she receives and, as we discovered in conversation with her, probably deserves a coffee table book of Charlenisms (”If you’re not yourself on TV, then who are you?” “I was like, I love everyone, you know what I mean? I love EVERYONE,” “I love Miami, but I think if there’s weather Miami will be the first one to go under the ocean.”) and is one of the most genuine people you’ll ever find on reality teevee.

Fifthly, it’s on Logo, which is our favorite channel second only to The Food Network.

Sexuality isn’t an issue in this story, it’s just a sidenote, and it is refreshing to see an actual group of lesbian friends on television. With lesbian stories typically relegated to relationship-related three-episode arcs, here’s girls who exist both within and outside of a relationship storyline.

And, last but not least, its very existence is a very good sign for Lesbians. Because for all its conventional reality-docu-soap staged dramatics, this show does nothing to hurt lesbian & bisexual visibility, as reality shows so often do by reinforcing damaging stereotypes — e.g., the stupid & sexually careless bisexual Tila Tequila (A Shot at Love with Tila Tequila) and the angry & abrasive black lesbian (Ebony, America’s Next Top Model). Perhaps it means we have arrived.

See; last we checked, no-one is stereotyping lesbians as hyper-attractive stylish girls who devote most of their time to going out, fighting, hooking up and surely damaging their hair via excessive flat-ironing, reckless product abuse and ubiquitous upkeep of streaky highlights.

In fact, Gimme Sugar emulates American pop culture’s most fanatically revered value set with bottle-breaking precision.  Sexuality isn’t an issue in this story, it’s just a sidenote, and it is refreshing to see an actual group of lesbian friends on television — revolutionary, even. With lesbian stories typically relegated to relationship-related three-episode arcs, here’s girls who exist both within and outside of the relationship storyline.

As AfterEllen editor Sarah Warn said in “She Made Me Watch This” regarding Season One: if you like this kind of thing [”attractive twentysomethings creating unnecessary drama while using grammatically incorrect sentences”) when straight people do it (e.g., The Hills and its spawn (which we’ve admittedly never seen)], then you’ll probably really like it when cute lesbians are doing it! A little guilty pleasure with plenty of bare skin and kissing. Kazaam!

[Also in She Made Me Watch This, Lori notes that she’d like to see a show about, “lesbians who are entrepreneurs coming up with their first start-up and all they do is sit in front of their computer.” Logo CALL US!]

For Gimme Sugar’s second season, the set-up convo is between Charlene and her party-promoter bosses in West Hollywood. Charlene has slacked on her nightlife-queen duties due to a foiled summer romance, and they challenge Charlene to bring a special version of sexy West Hollywood ladies’ night Truck Stop to Miami … where she shacks up with a whole new cast of lesbians who wear strange headgear like this:

Can she do it? Will the poor destitute villagers of the Fort Lauderdale area be saved from swine flu SARS the black plague another Blockbuster night? Will peace in Gotham City ever be restored?
Alex and Riese chatted with Charlene via telephone about the show, lesbian drama, her career aspirations, her family, relationships and coming out, and the importance of queer visibility. She was totally awesome & sweet and had a lot to say about the importance of media visibility for lesbians, which we love. Plus there’s a really cute fan coming-out story (I think we’re gonna have to make that a standard question, ’cause Kim’s story was so cute too!)

So here’s what she said … (also a sneak preview of Episode 204, “Rock Bottom” is at the end of the post)

I. Let’s Get Down to Business

Riese: What do you think are the special challenges that women face when trying to start a business together, especially when they’re all friends … and lesbians?

Charlene: I think when things get hectic and it’s time to meet deadlines, friends & women & lesbians will take things a little bit more at a personal level and not on a business level, which tends to cause tension. Little things come out … and then drama comes into play.

Alex: Yeah, girls have a lot of feelings, right?

Charlene: Women are emotional, you know what I mean? There’s girls that are quiet, girls that don’t take people’s shit, and it’s just like — if you direct a comment to someone they take it so personally, they bring up past issues or say, “this person is being a bitch, I can’t believe it,” and they keep telling more friends instead of being between just you two, and it’s not on a business level, it’s on a friendship level, and that’s when things get a little crazy. Girls just can’t separate.

II. Girlfight!

Riese: So when you’re not filming the show do you really fight that often? It seems like you fight an awful lot.

Charlene: We fight all the time.

Riese: You fight all the time?

Charlene: No no, it’s not that we fight all the time, but there’s always drama. When we watch ourselves on the show we see things that we didn’t even notice like, within ourselves, like “Oh my God, I’m so dramatic!” You know how some people are like, “Oh, I’m a little crazy,” and everyone else is like “yeah, we know!” I think we get a little less dramatic as time goes by.

Riese: So this season will be dramatic than last season, ’cause you’ve like, grown?

Charlene: It’s lesbians. There’s no such thing as less drama! I mean, it starts out at the very beginning. You saw that.

Riese: So like, when those girls were yelling at you outside the club, didn’t you ever want to be like, ‘you guys are acting crazy, this is way too dramatic?’ When all you’d done was talk for two minutes to a girl that turned out to be your friend’s friend’s ex-girlfriend?

Charlene: Well when I was pulled outside the first thing I thought in my head was like, “Well, what’s going on?” I thought that Miami was gonna be a little different. Not that I didn’t think it wasn’t going to be dramatic, but I honestly … I just really didn’t expect it on the first day.

Riese: So did that get any better?

Charlene: It was just like, what am I in for if this is what it’s like on the first day? What the hell am I in for now?
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Next: “We were at a lesbian club and there was one particular girl and I was like, “why do I think she’s cute, why do I have this interest in her?” —>

III. When I Grow Up, I Wanna Be Famous, I Wanna be a Star,
I Wanna Be in Movies

Riese: So what did you want to be when you grew up?

Charlene: Ooo, I either I wanted to be a teacher or an FBI agent.

Alex: OOOO, an FBI agent! That’s hot!

Riese: So what do your parents think about your job now?

Charlene: Um, working with lesbians … well. My Mom still wants me to be a nurse.

Alex: Well they’re in demand.

Riese: High employment rates for nurses.

Charlene: Yeah and I’m like uh, no. You know, why get into it? Like my Dad is like, whatever makes you happy, and I’m happy. And my Mom I guess she watches the show but with her eyes half-closed. They know that as long as I’m happy and I’m doing what I want, they’re fine with it. Even if they wish I was doing something else, they know at least I’m happy.

IV. Friendster, Coming Out & Gold Stars

Alex: So when did you come out to your family? Or were you just thrown on TV?

Charlene: Well, it was kind of like … I’d had boyfriends in the past, but I’ve never … well, I’m still a gold star!

Riese: Write that down.

Alex: Gold-star, me too, holler!

Charlene: Growing up I had a lot of gay family members. My brother is gay, I’ve had gay uncles, so I always thought, I mean … I knew what gay was when I was younger, but I thought it was only boys.

Alex & Riese: Totally!

My brother is gay, I’ve had gay uncles, so I always thought, I mean … I knew what gay was when I was younger, but I thought it was only boys.

Charlene: It was only like a boy thing. It wasn’t frustrating or anything, I was just like, whatever. And then once I got to like my early twenties I thought, you know maybe there’s something … I found out about bisexuality and label-free people. I’d go out with my brother as the token “no label” girl. I was like, I love everyone, you know what I mean? I love EVERYONE.

And then like, finally I was 22 and there was this girl I met in San Francisco when I was on trip with nine lesbians — they were just my friends, I was the token straight girl –

Riese: At first!

Charlene: We were at a lesbian club and there was one particular girl and I was like, “why do I think she’s cute, why do I have this interest in her?” It just clicked — her style & attitude. And I was like, maybe I should speak to her and uh, I found her — this was when Friendster was still, like back a long time ago, I found her on Friendster off my cousin’s page –

Alex & Riese: Friendster!

Charlene: We went to the same school so I found her and saw in her comments some other girl was trying to flirt with her. Then there was this other girl talking to this girl trying to distract her from talking to the girl I was interested in –

Riese: Wait, are we still talking about um, Friendster? This is happening on Friendster?

Charlene: Yeah yeah, so me and Girl #1 who I met in San Francisco were talking on email as friends, and then I saw some other girl flirting with HER on Friendster …. and I was like … whoa … maybe I’m jealous, and this is weird, and then the other girl, her name was Kelly, was the one talking to her, and so as I’m trying to distract her from talking to girl #1, I started to fall for Girl #2 and now …

Riese: This is all still on Friendster?

Charlene: She is, uh, so Kelly ends up being my first girlfriend.

Alex: Awww …

Riese: Wait …

Alex: And you were 22?

Riese: Wait, so when did you go from Friendster to 3D?

Charlene: We went from Friendster to exchanging numbers to talking on the phone & texting and then like a month later it was Cinco de Mayo and we said we’d meet the next day and which was at Q Lounge, and I’m sitting there on Cinco De Mayo, and I’m like, “There’s this girl that wants to holler at me and I think I’m going to let her.” And all my friends and like, my family and my brother and my cousins who are gay are on top of the Cantina in West Hollywood, and I’m like, “So I’m just telling everyone this story right now ’cause I just figured out that I am officially a lesbian.”

Alex: They were waiting for you to come out with it.

Charlene: Yeah, my brother was like, “That’s no news to me,” and I was like, “Why are you trying to break my thunder right now, let me have my party!”

Riese: So were you with this girl for a long time.

Charlene: A few months. Then she cheated on me. That was my first girl experience.

Alex: Oh, God …

Charlene: It took me a while to get over that. I didn’t even have my next girlfriend for … three and a half years. I didn’t make out with anybody or hook up with anybody for three years.

I hated that. I never wanted to have a wall up. I wear my heart in my sleeve and to be protected it’s like — fuck, dude, that’s what heartache really feels like.

Riese: What were you doing instead for three years?

Alex: She was being totally heartbroken, Riese!

I hated that. I never wanted to have a wall up. I wear my heart in my sleeve and to be protected it’s like — fuck, dude, that’s what heartache really feels like.

Riese: Were you going out? Were you in school?

Charlene: Oh, I was going out all the time. I was in love with my friends. I didn’t bother looking at girls that came by. My friends would be like, “Oh let’s go bla bla da-da- blah blah since you’re here,” and I was like “I don’t care, she probably has drama in her life, I can’t trust a girl right now.” I hated that. I never wanted to have a wall up. I wear my heart in my sleeve and to be protected it’s like — fuck, dude, that’s what heartache really feels like.

I went through that a couple more times. Now I’ve grown, and realized I just need to get to know people for a longer period of time before I really invest any part of my heart into anything. I need to know that they have a solid part in my life.

Alex: That’s probably a good idea.

Riese: Yeah you should never jump in too quick. Getting to know someone is always um, a good idea.

Charlene: ‘Cause a lot of girls I see now are like, you know, they talk to a girl for a couple of days and the next week they’re like, “she’s my girlfriend!”

Riese: Yeah that seems to be a problem with a lot of girls … Do you feel like the relationships you have are affected by being on TV? Or is it easier to meet people now?

Charlene: Oh, I’m the same. Girls to this day scare me. But when I’m out, and when I’m working, I’m working. I don’t pay attention to the girls in there unless someone really cute catches my eye, and then it’s not like, Hey, you’re super cute, can I have your number?

Especially with the girls that are part of the series, since we’re not “characters” everyone knows our first name, and I’m like, you don’t know anything about me, what do you want from me? They know us by our first names, and when someone is like, “Hey Charlene,” you know, like “How are you?” I’m like, “fuck, did I forget who you were? I feel like an asshole, was I drunk when I met you?”

And then it’s just fans being nice to us, ’cause they feel they relate to us. Someone brought it up to me that this girl only wanted to hook up ’cause I’m on the show, but that scares me on a different level ’cause there have been times that girls come up to me and act a certain way ’cause they know every detail of my bio. And I’m like, ahh, they tell me like, more things than I know about myself, and I wrote it!
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Next: When you watch The Hills or Melrose Place, there’s always gonna be people with an opinion, like “Oh all they do is go out and drink and party. I’m sorry but what do you do when you go out to the club with your friends, do you know try and have a good time?“

V. You Think You Know, But You Have No Idea

Alex: Do you think people who watch the show have a good idea of who you are, or … ?

Riese: Like is there stuff we don’t see? Do you like to read? Or is there stuff that’s not on camera that we don’t see about you?

Charlene: There’s stuff that’s not on camera but I’m myself 24/7. When I took the series last season I looked like I’d had sex for three weeks, like I’d been tossed around. I don’t care what other people think or how I come off. People are gonna see me going out, all dolled up or hanging out with my friends but if you’re not yourself on TV, then who are you?

Especially with a bunch of girls, somebody’s gonna cause some kind of drama or it’s gonna be a damn good time all night long, and it’s gonna be fun to watch.

For people that only have a couple lesbian friends they can see the show and see how many of us are out there where being gay isn’t an issue. It’s a stepping stone that makes coming out easier…

You have to break the shell, be okay with who you are regardless of the cameras and know that there’s someone out there who’s gonna relate to you. There’s no character space so if you’re not yourself that shuts off the whole reason for reality TV. Especially when it’s something about lesbians — that’s for everyone, even for gay boys, we’re fighting for visibility.

Riese: How do you feel about negative feedback or people saying it’s not necessarily the best representation — just drinking and partying, or that it’s like The Hills?

Charlene: I take it with a grain of salt. When you watch The Hills or Melrose Place, there’s always gonna be people with an opinion, like “Oh all they do is go out and drink and party.” I’m sorry but what do you do when you go out to the club with your friends, do you know try and have a good time?”

Especially with a bunch of girls, somebody’s gonna cause some kind of drama or it’s gonna be a damn good time all night long, and it’s gonna be fun to watch. People that wanna put that negative energy out there, like “all they do is party,” “all they do is this,” bla bla bla, it’s just what you see, you’re not seeing your everyday life.

Riese: So what parts of the everyday life do you not see?

Charlene: Um … going hiking, or like on the phone with our parents … actually doing our jobs, our day jobs during the day, there’s so much going on, you know a lot of people like to nitpick on what’s interesting and what’s not interesting like as their own form of entertainment.

Riese: What is your day job?

Charlene: I just take it with a grain of salt and just laugh about it, because you are a topic of conversation, no matter what it is.

VI. Visibility Matters

Riese: Okay, um, Do you feel like there is pressure being one of the only lesbian shows on tv right now, with the power of visibility? Do you find that rewarding?

Charlene: I think when people watch the series our sexuality is secondary. You know what I mean? It’s not like “Ooo, they’re all lesbians!” and it’s just about lesbians. You just see our lives, how we interact, our friendships, our relationships —and now, being the only lesbian show on TV right now, it’s important for people to see us. For us, even in terms of fighting for our rights, being on television — we want that negative energy to go away.

Straight life, gay life, we all have drama. But at least we’re able to break the stereotypes of people who are against gay culture and only have something bad to say, who think that lesbians are only dykes and gay boys are only fags.

We all bleed the same blood, we’re all people, we just happen to like different genders. For people that only have a couple lesbian friends they can see the show and see how many of us are out there where being gay isn’t an issue. It’s a stepping stone that makes coming out easier.

If lesbians are on TV, and I’m out here closeted and not showing anyone who I am, and these people are so comfortable with who they are — then these girls can think — well, why not me?

Alex: Do you get a lot of messages from girls like that? Saying you’ve helped make them feel more comfortable with themselves? I know we get a lot of those here at Autostraddle.

Charlene: Actually — I’m gonna tell you a story I’ve only told to my roommate before. I spend a lot of time going through fan emails, not just “I love you” but ones I have to spend time with; related to suicide and coming out, people who’ve been gay bashed or get negative feedback from their family.

I let them know I don’t have the answers, it’s a huge spectrum and I can give you advice but I sit in my room for hours reading one email over & over to put myself in that person’s place to give them the right advice. They’re reaching out for me and I can’t ignore that.

Straight life, gay life, we all have drama. But at least we’re able to break the stereotypes of people who are against gay culture and only have something bad to say, who think that lesbians are only dykes and gay boys are only fags.

One girl who I’d given advice to about coming out to her family, she took my advice and wrote me to say it was amazing, that I’d helped her feel comfortable coming out, and she was in Texas and wanted to know if she made it to LA, could she contact me? Not to hang out, but that she just wanted to see me and give me a hug. And I’m like crying in my room!

Alex: That’s amazing, you took the time, and that’s what it’s all about.

Charlene: It’s really important. Aside from us, and how things are perceived or edited on television, Logo has done its duty. We’ve done our duty. If we’ve touched even one life out of ten lives, we’re hitting a community that’s so afraid but surely boys & girls will see us and think, “I want to be a part of this community.”

They were afraid to go to marches ’cause their family was against it. You’re hitting one life, then you’re doing your job. Helping no matter what it is, how big or small.

Alex: That’s why it’s important for people to be out, and I’m really happy that you shared that story with us.

VII. Sexy-Time and Sex on the Beach

Alex: I guess that we’re switching gears here, ’cause Riese wants me to ask you — are there any sexy moments coming up on the show on the season?

Charlene: It’s Miami! And not in the next episode, but “coming up in the season” you do see me licking that girl’s chest –

Alex: We have sexy time, it’s confirmed!

Charlene: It’s Gimme Sugar Miami, you can’t not have a little sexy time.

Alex: What do you like better, L.A. or Miami?

Charlene: I love L.A, it’s my home. I love Miami, but I think if there’s weather Miami will be the first one to go under the ocean, it’s surrounded by patches of water!

Riese: In case of apocalypse or massive flood, you’re safer in California.

Charlene: People will just end up underneath! And I mean the beaches are beautiful in Miami, in that area they have L.A. beat by far.

But the water’s amazing and they have no waves, and their beaches are long but they’re small — it’s like 100 feet and you’re int he water. In L.A. you have to walk like a mile to get to the water.

It’s crazy humid for me, and no -one wants to go out ’til 12:30 or 1 am ’cause the clubs don’t close ’til five. and my body can not handle that. 7 o’clock at the latest!

Alex: Actually, Riese and I were at the NewNowNext awards and we saw you there.

Charlene: That’s so fun! A really good time!

Riese: But we were hosting and you were hosting too, so if we had all talked there would’ve been a lot of microphones!

Here’s a sneak preview of tonight’s episode, “Rock Bottom”:

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