As you probably know by now, I have a Thing for Harry Potter. Reading the books as an adult was the most liberating experience of my life, and I credit them with helping me to come out also to pursue my dreams of becoming a writer. Autostraddle dot com Headmistress Riese Bernard had never read Harry Potter at all, not even a little bit, hadn’t even heard any spoilers (including the one about Snape!) until a few months ago. It was a real treat watching her learn to love the series too, and so when she was all finished, I called her up on the phone and talked to her about her magical journey. Here are the things that she said.
*Oh first: SPOILER ALERT. This interview contains spoilers for every major and important thing that happens in the entire series.*
So you’ve only just now read Harry Potter for the first time in your life! What took you so long?
Well, I tend to choose books based on what I think will make me a better writer, rather than because I’m drawn to the story. Especially during the time when Harry Potter was so popular, I was only able to read things I sought out specifically to help me with my voice for a story I was writing or books from popular queer or feminist women whose voices I wanted to learn from, or just whose voices I wanted in my head. I’ve also just never really been into fantasy.
I actually did read Sorcerer’s Stone, though! I read it in 2005 when I was working at a literary agency because we were getting all these rip-off Harry Potter submissions and I needed to know what was going on. I liked it! Hogwarts reminded me of Interlochen, where I went to high school. But I had a million other things I had to read for work, too, so I didn’t read any additional Harry Potter books.
Why’d you cave and read the rest of the books?
Because you guys talk about it all the time! You reference Harry Potter at least five times a day.
I know. I have a problem.
No, it’s not even just you! So does everyone else. [My girlfriend] Abby loves these books too. I know so many people who are still obsessed with them. Finally I was just like, “Okay, I don’t understand these references. I have got to know what everyone is talking about.”
When you first started reading them, you were like, “Eh, whatever.”
Yeah.
But I was with you the day after you finished Goblet of Fire, and I could tell they had your heart at that point. You plowed through those last three books, and they’re the big ones.
I finished Deathly Hallows in two days.
What changed?
I think, obviously, the books just get better. And I was reading them on my Kindle on my phone, but once we picked up Abby’s physical books from her house in Indiana over Christmas and I started reading those instead of Kindle versions, the story got a lot more real to me. In Goblet of Fire, things get a lot darker, and fast. And the characters get more complicated and interesting. But I also think — and I know this isn’t some kind of revelation; people have been telling me this about Harry Potter forever — that I was going through a complicated time in my own life and the harder things got for me, personally, the more I found myself turning to Hogwarts. Part of it is definitely escapism, but I think part of it is watching them navigate this magical world that really doesn’t seem too distant from what we experience in our own lives.
This is maybe weird to say, but the more people who died in the books, the more I related to the characters who lived.
Mmm hmm. People who write off Harry Potter as simple escapism really have to ignore a whole lot of horrific darkness these kids go through. It’s interesting that you talk about finding a kind of comfort in them. JK Rowling talked a lot about how writing these books was an exercise in helping her cope with the loss of her mother. And you’re also a person who has lost a parent.
I was really sad. It was very hard for me to read that. Two books end with surrogate fathers dying. I was mad at you. I was mad at Abby. When Sirius died, I was like, “What the fuck?” And then when Dumbledore died? I was like, “You motherfuckers, I hate all of you.” I cried when Sirius died. I know a lot of people criticized the books for getting darker, but it made me appreciate them so much more. Life is full of darkness and a never-ending cycle of grief, and just when you think one more thing can’t get pulled from your heart, there it goes! This is maybe weird to say, but the more people who died in the books, the more I related to the characters who lived.
Who did you relate to the most?
Dumbledore — but I think it bears mentioning that when I told you and Abby that I related to Dumbledore the most, but a less perfect version, you both agreed with me and told me I’d identify with him even more after I finished Half-Blood Prince. But you know what happened at the end of Half-Blood Prince? HE DIED, you assholes!
For real, though. I get to lead a group of magical people every day. I am always on the lookout for people who are truly magical to add to my “school,” and I want to help these people become better wizards. And I struggle with the amount of emotion I can invest in these magical people without setting up false expectations, so I end up holding back a lot with how deep I can make my relationships. I have to withhold so many things that I would really like to talk about. And I’ve seen a lot. I’ve been around Hogwarts 120 times.
To be fair, Abby and I did say you’d have to make it all the way to the end before you truly understood Dumbledore.
Right! In Deathly Hallows, when the mythology of Dumbledore started breaking down and Harry started learning hard things about him, and even some shitty things about him, that’s when I started relating to him the most. Even the phase of his life with Grindelwald, it reminded me of a time when I was dating a super-genius during a manic phase, and she saw in me something special that she said was also super-genius. She said we were special, we should be set apart, she told me I was better than these other people in my life. That is not a way I usually think about myself, at all! Which is why it was so intoxicating for me to hear her say it. When there aren’t a lot of people who share your ambition, and you meet somebody who does, and who can match you intellectually, I can see how it would be easy for Dumbledore to get caught up in someone else’s power-hungry fever-dream for a second. It’s not power we were hungry for, but I can understand getting there.
Also, man, Dumbledore makes mistakes! He made some major mistakes! And while I am so proud of everything I’ve accomplished at Autostraddle, I have fucked up in some huge ways. I’ve hurt people. I’ve let people down. I’ve let people slip through the cracks that I shouldn’t have. When Rita Skeeter’s book about Dumbledore came out and Harry was like, “Wow, is this really true?” I was like… “If people read the book about me, I think they’d feel the same way.”
That’s fascinating. That’s not why I said you remind me of Dumbledore at all. For me, Dumbledore is the world’s most powerful and talented wizard, and he did fuck up when he was figuring out who he was. But he’s a guy who saw the darkness in himself and the darkness in the world and didn’t give up. In fact, it only strengthened his resolve to find a way to bring light and whimsy and magic into the lives of countless magical people. If anyone had the right to give up hope, it was Dumbledore, but with his literal dying breath, he was believing the best in the kid who was trying to kill him. His mistakes led to a long life of perpetually redeeming other people.
Well, that’s a very kind interpretation of me.
I really believe it.
I guess — no, you’re right. In some ways, I do feel like I am doing penance and that I want to make sure other people never believe the stupid things I’ve been duped into believing by my own prejudice or ignorance. Like how Dumbledore really did think he was better than Muggles in the beginning… but he wasn’t! I feel like my answers are making me sound like an egotistical maniac!
No! Absolutely not! Acknowledging your own power does not making you an egotistical maniac! Knowing you are powerful and exercising that power with empathy is the very best of Dumbledore. Right, and Dumbledore knows he could be the Minister of Magic —
But he’d rather have his own website devoted to empowering queer women. He would never be satisfied as the Editor-in-Chief of Buzzfeed.
There’s no amount of Xanax in the world that could make me as chill and powerful as Minerva McGonagall.
That’s it, exactly. Who’s your favorite Hogwarts professor?
McGonagall.
Correct. How come?
Because she’s so strong and no-nonsense and reasoned and measured. There’s no amount of Xanax in the world that could make me as chill and powerful as Minerva McGonagall. Obviously I was also imagining her as Maggie Smith, so that helped.
You finished the movies last night, right? How do you think they compare to the books?
Well, I’m sure it will come as a HUGE surprise to everyone to hear I thought the books were waaaaay better than the movies! It’s weird how much stuff they cut out. I mean, I realize they had to for time, but so many of Harry and Dumbledore’s conversations — the things that make sense of entire chunks of the series’ mythology — are just left out completely. The action sequences were fun to watch because I don’t really pay much attention to them when I’m reading them, and I’m not very good at watching them. The movies were trying really hard to be authentic to the story, but they felt more like a highlights reel to me.
Okay, it’s time for some rapid-fire questions. Are you ready?
No, I already feel your judgement.
What’s your Patronus?
A monkey.
What would your Boggart be?
It would be everyone involved with Autostraddle and A-Camp deciding I’m a terrible person and they don’t want to work with me anymore.
What would you see in the Mirror of Erised.
I would see myself with my Dad.
Okay, I’m going to ask you to say the Harry Potter character that reminds you most of each of our senior editors. And you have to do their Patronus. Let’s do Laneia first.
Ginny Weasley. But book Ginny, not movie Ginny. Powerful, beautiful, beloved. Maybe her Patronus would be a fox.
Rachel.
Obviously Hermione. A panther patronus? A big cat, I think. Maybe a lion.
Yvonne.
McGonagall. Tungi as her Patronus.
Heather Hogan.
Neville Longbottom, with a little dash of Hagrid. Your Patronus would be something so nice that everyone would be like, “That’s too nice, I don’t even believe it’s real.” Two otters holding hands.
Perfect answer. So, you were being an elitist about Harry Potter, but now you’ve read it and loved it — but do you feel like it was worthy of your time, for real? Did it make you better?
It did. It gave me comfort but it also inspired me. It really made me miss fiction writing. The world building is so dense and the characterizations are so strong. I could not believe how much the mythology of the world kept growing with each book, and it’s obvious she imagined it all beforehand. I never felt like I was up against the edge of the world and I kept being like, “How did you think of yet this whole other new magical thing, JK Rowling?!” How big is her imagination? It’s unreal.
Some critics talk about how overly long the books get, but I vehemently disagree with that. People always point to Order of the Phoenix, but there isn’t one newly introduced thing in that book that doesn’t wrap back around on itself in a major way later in the story.
Order of the Phoenix was not too long. I heard someone say that. It absolutely isn’t. Maybe that’s why I started getting more into the books around Goblet of Fire. I’m not — okay, you know how many stupid TV shows we have to watch. We get so used to the dumbest bullshit happening for no reason, and so you start to distrust storytellers and their ability to make sense of anything. There’s no explanation for why anything happens, no authentic character motivation. As soon as I realized that I could trust that every scene in Harry Potter was there for a reason, every line of dialogue — I couldn’t stop reading it. You don’t expect that from any writer. You especially don’t expect it from a children’s book writer.
I feel the shade you are throwing at Pretty Little Liars.
Yes! And also shows like Lost. I want to ask the showrunners, “do you know what you’re doing? Or are you just throwing shit at the wall to see what sticks?”
Now I feel you throwing shade at Glee.
I mean, yes. Queer women learn not to trust most writers. It’s shocking to be able to put trust into a writer, to really believe they have everything mapped out and know what they’re doing.
Ten years ago, I was working in this tiny little cube, my soul getting crushed more and more every day by a horrible job working with horrible people, and I was in the closet, and my church was just getting worse and worse every day. I found your blog and Harry Potter at the same time, and they were both so essential in empowering me to actually start living my life. The fact that I work for you now, and am casually chatting on the phone with you about Harry Potter is surreal to me. You are very much a Dumbledore in my life, and I really want you to know that.
You’re kind of like a Patronus, I think.
Nah, I’m way too scared to protect anyone from anything. Okay, final question: Who on our staff would win in an Ultimate Wizard’s Duel?
Yvonne. You’re right: McGonagall never would apologize for her power.
this is delightful. and yes, someone definitely should’ve warned you that 5-7 are a totally different ballgame than 1-4. it goes from “the wonders of the wizarding world” to “let’s talk about the death of everyone you love and your childhood” in the blink of an eye and it is JARRING. also those patronus picks are spot ON!
I did not come into this expecting to cry! But here we are!
same
ugh thank you it’s not just me. *throws a pile of papers into the air.*
Not expecting to cry or to decide that maybe I do want to read this series after all.
SAME
RIESE AS DUMBLEDORE. AUTOSTRADDLE AS HOGWARTS. THIS ANALOGY IS SO PERFECT OH MY GOD.
And Riese, that Boggart is just a Boggart. We love you. Welcome to the world of understanding Harry Potter references!
OotP isn’t too long, it just FEELS too long because it is undoubtedly the worst of the 7 books. Because Angsty Teenage Harry Potter is unbearable. I understand the plot/characterization necessity of giving Harry that angsty phase, but my god it was/is hard to read.
aw thank you so much!
I forgave a lot of the angst in my re reads of that book because to be honest Harry has a LOT OF SHIT thrown at him in that book.
Like when you get enrolled in a tournament that can kill you and you can’t say no and your whole school hates you for it ? Yeah you’re entitled to get angsty
Ron in the other hand is a little shit in the first part of the book.
Ugh, Ron.
OotP is my favourite book of the series! But I seem to be in the minority here..
Petition for Autostraddle Sorting Hat as A+ feature?
Have not read interview yet; this is amazing and probably best part of my weekend.
hey! Awesome that you loved the books Riese, they mean the world to me. Can I ask you what your thoughts on Snape were? (Book/Movie).
hahaha i hear this is a very contentious topic and so far heather is the only person who agrees with me that i’ve talked to about it — but no i am not a huge fan of Snape. YES what i learned in the last book did redeem his character for me from being “horrible person” to “person,” and he clearly suffered for most of his life and i feel sad for him. but it did not elevate him in my eyes to any level of heroism or greatness. and listen — i am a huge sucker for characters who are sort of rotten but then decide to step into the light and go good and i tend to root for them with nihilism and get frustrated when they’re held accountable for past mistakes after clearly deciding to redeem themselves. like i’m always worried if they don’t get enough support for their redemption song, they’ll go back to evil, and i root for them. i root for Spike, for Caprica Six, Jesse Pinkman, etc.
but. regardless of what happened to snape when he was young and how he was treated by harry’s father — he bullied harry and ron and hermione and neville constantly in a way that i find totally gross and unacceptable. being bullied gives you a pass to seek revenge on your bullies, but it does not give you a pass to bully children who had no part in that. and also they don’t deserve to be treated as students any differently than any other student or be penalized academically for snape’s own personal demons. that’s just me having strong feelings about following the rules at school, though, so.
i did finish reading the books in february (this interview happened a while back!) so i’m not 100% on top of remembering everything, but there was other shit he did that i couldn’t write off either, though the details escape me now.
I remember I HATED the way Snape behaved towards Harry, Hermione, Neville throughout the books while reading them as a kid that had some horrible teachers But later on, his character gave me some insight and empathy on the toll it took on him and his soul to spy and work as a teacher, a job he clearly hates and how everyone around him is miserable because of it (made me rethink my career ). I loved how Alan Rickman played him dripping with sarcasm but also quite protective in the prisoner of Askaban. Thanks for answering!
Also his “love for Lily” is extremely creepy.
THANK YOU! He’s flat out abusive to Harry + friends. I am glad his character was developed and that there’s a reason behind the vehemence, and I cry my eyes out during his chapter in Deathly Hallows because his life was a lot of shit. but that doesn’t turn him into some great hero after being horrible to children for years.
Yeah, I found it hard to forgive the abuse of his authority as a teacher to harass his students. but then again, maybe part or even a lot of that could have been desperation to keep his cover? IDK, but I do love and miss Alan Rickman.
I totally agree with this read, that just because he wasn’t evil didn’t make him an awesome person. The way he treated the Gryffindor students was awful and the thing with Lily always read a bit to me like ‘why don’t girls ever choose the NICE guys, LIKE ME??’.
???
Heather IS a human patronus! Riese may be late to the party but she’s leading it now :-)
I went to the midnight release for Half Blood Prince that awful last year I lived with my mother, plowing through the first five and then not sleeping til I finished it was how I made it, pretty much. The books really are what you need for a hard time.
Heather, don’t be silly, you basically patronus’d for Carol on that flight that one time!
this interview is gorgeous and is so much of both of you <3
I do not have time to read this right now but I had to comment immediately to express how excited I am for this interview. I have been waiting for this for YEARS I think.
So Harry Potter was (and remains) a huge part of my life, yet I’m surrounded by people who somehow missed that boat and want to kind of write it off. I really appreciate that you took the time and energy to give these books a shot and I’m so glad they resonated with you. This is such a lovely interview!
This was a beautiful gift on a bad day. Which is how I feel about Harry Potter, so
THIS IS THE BEST THING
Also you did not ask this question in the interview, but are we to assume from the feature image that Riese is a Gryffindor?
Gryffenclaw, apparently! The test came out equal parts ravenclaw and griffyndor
which test? I got sorted Hufflepuff on the old Pottermore and Ravenclaw on the new one, which seems more accurate but I could use a second opinion. :p
Riese! Same! And I always feel so torn about identifying with either house because of this!
Yer a wizard, Riese!
This is so beautiful and you have a true gift (by that I mean figuring out people’s patronuses. Patroni?)
I read The Prisoner of Azkaban when I was a kid. I remember liking it, but not enough to read the rest (I’ve also never been a fantasy fan) but man, is this making me want to just get it over with and read them already.
I would try them from the start. I don’t think I’d have enjoyed Prisoner of Azkaban if I hadn’t read the proceeding ones.
Sometimes, you just appreciate things when it’s the right moment. I read 2.5ish of the books and then never got around to it for years. Forgot I’d read them at all and then realized when I watched the movies that I knew every storyline already…
A few years later I had a month between jobs and read all of them and wished I had another month to re-read them all. So much love.
I realised last night I can get them for free on the Kindle lending library, so guess who’s reading the Philisopher’s Stone right now?!
It feels weird because, like you say, I know a fair bit of the plot already, but it’s so different to see it written down?
… Of course I meant Philosopher’s. I can’t let that typo slide, haha.
“I could not believe how much the mythology of the world kept growing with each book, and it’s obvious she imagined it all beforehand.”
THIS. It’s absolutely insane. I think every book introduces something new, and not just little details, either, though those are plentiful. There’s always something big, something fundamental. It all feels natural because, as you said, she had it all in her head from the start. Every few books there’s a genuine paradigm shift but it never feels like it’s out of left field. As far as Rowling and the characters are concerned, the world is the same as it always was. It’s just our perspective that changes.
She did beautiful work of world building.
oh wow, this is such a flattering compliment! probably one of the nicest ones I’ve received! thank you so much. i definitely don’t feel like Professor McGonagall 100 percent of the time so I’ll be sure to harness her powers always. <3
this interview was delightful, thank you for bringing magic to all of our lives, you two!
After reading this article I then watched JK Rowling interviews for at least three hours. It has been the best day.
You couldn’t go wrong with a day filled with JKR interviews. I remember an interview she did with Dan Rad where they were trying to sort everyone out into hogwarts houses and they came to the conclusion that no matter the result, “the world would be a better place if everyone in it tried to be hufflepuff”. That made me tear up SO MUCH.
My question for Riese: how did you feel about the Hermione/Ron relationship? I personally didn’t like it, because Hermione was always far too good for Ron. But I didn’t want her to hook up with Harry. I just really loved their gang of three and didn’t think it needed any sort of romance?? Which brings me to…the 19 Years Later bit at the end. Thoughts??
Oh man, I love this interview!
:) Warming my heart, and now putting a smile on my face; you’re slaying me today, Autostraddle.
I have the same kind of glowing, fuzzy feelings as if I was sitting in the room with two wonderful friends, watching and listening to them talk and laugh, and I have nothing to say or do, but feel good in the company of their comfort and affection for each other. You two have a really lovely friendship, and I’m glad Harry Potter was around to be another conduit of it.
I was hesitant to begin the series too, but after book 1, I was totally hooked!! Harry Potter was so wonderfully detailed and rich in every way! I, too, was shocked how dark books 5 – 7 grew. I think my patronus would be a swan!