If your TikTok FYP is anything like mine, the “Apple” dance has been popping up more and more for the last month. It was created by actor Kelley Heyer as a casual way to bring attention to her underrated favorite song from Charli XCX’s brat, but once Charli herself did the dance, it exploded.
With the Kamala Harris presidential campaign adopting an album about fame culture, resisting toxic femininity, being in your 30s, and doing lots of cocaine as a feminist anthem, the popularity of this dance has only increased. And, with that, the platform of its creator.
I spoke to Kelley about the origins of the “Apple” dance, the experience of going super viral, and how she’s adjusting to this newfound fame.
Drew: I wanted to start by asking you to introduce yourself, because I’m sure you’re so much more than just the person who created the “Apple” dance.
Kelley: Hi my name is Kelley Heyer. I live in New York. I’m an actor. And now sometimes TikTok maker.
Drew: A Charli XCX TikTok dance influencer.
Kelley: (laughs)
@kelley.heyer Hi cuties, I need you all to know that it’s okay if someone doesn’t tag me in the caption of their dance. It’s nice when peolple do but okay if they don’t! This whole thing has gotten really huge which is amazing! When things blow up on the internet, there will always be a point where it grows beyond something anyone can control. Frankly it’s embarrassing when people are yelling in the comments of someone else’s video to tag me. Especially in Charli’s comments!!! I truly appreciate the intent behind that, but not the execution. Please don’t use my name as an excuse to be mean to someone. It’s also embarrassing the way some people are now leaving comments saying that I’m “begging” for dance credit. If people tag me, that’s great, if people don’t tag me, that’s okay too!! If you want to tag me in the comments of a video that is not yours, please do it in a way that is kind and considerate (or because the video has a an animal doing the dance, I NEED to see every single one of those they’re so cute). It’s really wonderful to see that something I made to a song I really love is now being loved by other people! Seeing so many people dancing makes my heart so full. Just please be kind to each other okay? Everyone deserves to have a brat summer. 💚💚💚💚💚💚 #charli #brat #apple
Drew: What was your relationship to TikTok before this?
Kelley: I joined TikTok in 2020 when the pandemic started because the acting industry shut down and I wanted a way to stay creative and have fun. I also really enjoy talking about fashion and vintage and personal style, and since we were stuck inside our houses, I was able to make videos showing off my closet. I enjoyed making those videos and it just kind of spiraled from there. Social media was also a way for me to further my career and be my own publicist. Like okay if I can’t audition right now or if I don’t have a manager right now, what can I do? I can get my name out in other ways and do it myself.
Drew: And what was your relationship to Charli XCX’s music?
Kelley: Oh my God. I’ve been listening to her for forever. I grew up in Hawaii and I was very much a goody two shoes. I never really went out. Even in college I didn’t really go out out. So it was exciting to listen to this hyperpop club music and imagine what that world was like. And every album she puts out is a banger. I loved Crash! Crash was great. I mean it had Caroline Polachek and Chris and Rina Sawayama on it. All the greats.
Then brat came out and I was like she’s done it again! She’s iconic and unapologetically herself and you can hear that in her music.
Drew: I’m embarrassed because I’m a recent fan. But I’ve been going through her back catalog and it’s all great. I’ve been going album by album and now I’m obsessed. Especially with Pop 2.
Kelley: I think anyone who joins at any time is welcome. It just means more support for an artist who I care about. The more the merrier!
Drew: So what was the origin of making this video and at what point did you realize it was going viral?
Kelley: It’s kind of crazy that we’re here at the end of July because not only do I have date stamps from the TikTok videos, but also I kept checking the sound to see how many videos had used it.
The album had been out for about a week and I kind of felt “Apple” was the most underappreciated song. Maybe because it has a slightly different beat and feel than the rest of the album. There’s something kind of structured about it which I think — Charli is a genius — she’s talking about generational trauma and being stuck inside this box of a family so the structure makes sense. I woke up one day and was like it would be hilarious if I made a dance to this as someone who has never made a TikTok dance before. And here we are.
When I posted the first video, there were about 200 videos under the sound. I posted pretty consistently for two weeks and I noticed I was getting tagged by people who were doing it and I was like oh wow this is so fun. And then at around the two week mark that’s when Charli and Troye and Terrence posted the video of them doing it. At that point there were maybe 2,000 videos under the sound and then from there it just took off.
What’s crazy about the last week is at the one month anniversary post the sound had 100,000 videos and today it has 400,000 videos.
Drew: Wow.
@charlixcx epic choreo moment incoming on sweat tour ! @Troye Sivan @terrencefoconnor
Kelley: The exponential growth of it has felt like whiplash. Like really cool whiplash.
Drew: Yeah do you want to talk more about what that experience has been like?
Kelley: I’ve been reflecting on it because when someone is exposed to the public, it will be mostly positive, but there will always be a form of backlash. Part of it is just the average internet trolls who will say shit like “butter face” or “armpit hair” or “get a life.” But then there will be people who are like “it’s problematic you used a 1975 song because Matty Healy is kind of a trash person” and it starts to get into my character and my morals and that sometimes upsets me. I mean, I try to be a good and authentic person, but I’ll never be able to please everyone always. Any issue, good or bad, will always have so much nuance that no matter what I say someone will be unhappy.
You know, brat is now synonymous with Kamala Harris and people are in my comments making a lot of assumptions and asking me a lot of questions. No one wants to hear the nuance that I don’t agree with all of her policies. It’s either support her 100% or you’re voting for Trump.
Drew: This is something I find really interesting about TikTok specifically. Virality feels so random. There’s such a range in terms of how often videos get out of your sphere. And then it speaks to the internet more broadly that you can go from loving a hyperpop musician and making a dance for an underrated song to people demanding to know your views on the upcoming presidential election. It’s bizarre and there’s not a ton of nuance allowed if you do express your opinions.
And, look, it’s not that I don’t expect — or hope for — a certain level of ethics from the artists I like, but I’m personally not that concerned with one tweet from a British musician even if the Democratic party is running with it. So I certainly — no offense to you — don’t care if the person who made up a dance to one of that artist’s songs has what I perceive to be the perfect take on the election.
The expectations that random strangers on the internet have for everyone they perceive to have a platform is wild. And I think it creates a culture where anyone with any sort of fame — especially when they get famous famous — is encouraged to shut it all down, never learn, never admit a mistake, and ignore it all as noise. And that’s unfortunate, because there often are times where critique is important and engaging with those conversations would be great.
@kelley.heyer Throw an 🍏 in the comments if you agree! #greenscreen #apple
Kelley: I think when it comes to famous people or anyone we celebrate on the internet in any sort of way, people want to be able to project themselves onto that person and have their exact self mirrored back to them. They want to know that someone agrees with them 100% on everything, but that will never be the reality. And because the internet often has to be so short and concise in bite-size snippets, there’s not room for all the asterisks that are involved. Everything has nuance and the internet hates nuance.
Drew: I wonder if as an actor, you feel any gratitude for getting this opportunity to be exposed to the absurdity of all this. Like I’m a filmmaker and if I achieve the goals that I’m working to achieve I will become more famous than I am now. But the tiny amount of gay internet fame I get from writing for Autostraddle feels like good practice. I have to imagine it’s so hard for people whose first exposure to fame is like getting cast in some big movie and all of a sudden they’re a huge star. Having these experiences with the internet and internet fame, I feel like I’m learning how to deal with it all.
The only times I’ve gotten in trouble online are being called anti-semitic — I’m Jewish, I’ve just long been pro-Palestine — or transphobic — I’m trans, I just have my own relationship to that like everybody. It’s always identities and experiences I have. And not that people can’t be self-hating and work against their own community, but I’ve just learned to be like, what’s actually being said here? What perfection am I lacking? And who in my real life — not faceless people online — can I look to for actual critique and discussion? It’s all sticky and I’m grateful to learn about it on a small scale.
Kelley: Totally. And again it’s that thing when people see you online they want to know that you agree with everything they agree with because that makes them feel safe. It’s completely understandable because there are a lot of people out there with really horrendous views. But it’s just not possible to be in agreement on every single minute opinion you have.
I mean, when it comes to acting, you know what I audition for a lot? Cops. Because there are a lot of cop shows. I had a small gig — not as a cop but as a victim — on FBI: Most Wanted. And that’s still me being involved in a copaganda show.
Drew: That’s something that every actor I know grapples with. I mean, my partner stopped taking auditions for cops, but that’s the majority of shows and there’s not a lot of work right now, so it’s a difficult choice to make. And even for people I know who have drawn certain hard lines, there are always complications. What’s the difference between playing a cop on a cop show or playing a victim? What level of copaganda qualifies something as a cop show? And while I admire people I know who are steadfast in their values on this, I also don’t begrudge actors who need to take the work.
It’s a great example of something where I can disagree with someone’s choice, while understanding the circumstances around it and not judging them. It’s hard to be alive in our world.
Kelley: It’s hard. And, you know, right now I’m still comfortable taking those auditions, because the stuff I’m auditioning for is like Cop #2 and the line is like, “Boss, the evidence came in today.” But one could argue I’m still a cog in the machine… I don’t know.
Drew: No, it’s tricky. I get it.
Kelley: Also I hope none of this is coming across as like, you can’t say anything these days!
Drew: No, no. And look it is so case-by-case. It’s hard to talk in these broad strokes, because even that removes nuance. Because there are things where I’m like well if a celebrity said this it would fundamentally change whether I engage with their work or how I engage with it. I have my own lines.
I saw a tweet that was like everyone is either being too enthusiastic about Kamala or too much of a buzzkill, only I am the perfect middle ground.
Kelley: (laughs)
Drew: And I was like that is the feeling! And that’s how it feels about most things. The challenge is to be like, yes, that’s often how it feels, but to figure out what deviates so much from your ethics that it’s worthy of judgment or action and what does not. And I’d always encourage people to do their calling out, calling in among their immediate community and close family and friends rather than at some random person they see on TikTok. Usually, if you deeply disagree with a stranger on the internet, the best course of action is to just not engage with that person further.
Kelley: Totally. Recognizing your lines is a really important thing especially within your circle. Focusing on what matters to you and what you’re okay with. It’s okay if someone’s line is different than yours, but at what point do you still want to follow them or be friends with them?
And going back to your question about a sudden rise to fame, I’ve been thinking a lot about Rachel Ziegler and Chappell Roan. They both immediately shot into the spotlight — obviously they’d been working at it for years, but just in terms of fame — and there was a good month or two where people were pedestalling them and then that’s inevitably followed by backlash or disappointment. Seeing that and seeing that happen on a minute level for me, it makes you realize that’s just how it is. Not everything is ever going to be 100% in your favor. I’m no stranger to critique — God I went to acting school — but I think you just have to think about what critique matters. I have friends who I will text and say, I need you to be blunt with me. That’s my circle and they help me draw my lines.
I get why people turn off their comments or go offline for a bit. Because even though it’s all happening inside this little box in our hands, it can be mentally tasking.
Drew: The last thing I want to ask you about is what else you’re working on. Because I was thinking about how Brian Jordan Alvarez was creating incredible work for years and years and then all of a sudden had a viral moment with one of his characters on TikTok with that song “Sitting.”
Kelley: Oh my God, yes!
@brianjordanalvarez SITTING 🗣️🗣️🗣️🎶🎶🎶
Drew: It went so viral and all of a sudden he was doing all of this press. And I don’t know the exact timeline or connection, but he does finally have a show on FX coming out. I remember I read that pilot half a decade ago when I was working at a production office and was telling my boss, you have to make this. And it took whatever amount of years. I think it’s so funny when artists go viral for things that aren’t their primary project.
So that’s all to say: What are you working on? And what kind of projects would you love to act in?
Kelley: Thank you for asking. I can’t wait to monologue for ten minutes about this.
Drew: (laughs)
Kelley: For one, it’s just crazy how long it takes to make things. It’s so hard to make art. It’s so hard to get anything done and you put your whole self into it. It’s crazy that anyone can make anything.
For me, I’m just trying to use all the views I’m getting as a way to walk through open doors. I’m a big tarot person and I remember all these readings I’ve had, the cards said it wouldn’t happen the way I thought it would happen. And that made me stressed, because I was like, does that mean I’m not going to be an actor? Because that’s what I want to do! But now I think it was saying I’ll get what I want but I’ll have to be an influencer to get there. (laughs)
Drew: (laughs)
Kelley: It’s so crazy. But I’m trying to just enjoy everything that’s happening and not ask for more. Because I think the more open I am, the more that will return to me. So I’m just trying to walk through every door that I think is good for me to walk through. I’m in LA right now and I’m about to film a very exciting TikTok that I’m nervous about. That’s a really cool opportunity. And, in terms of acting, I’m really hoping I can get an agent from this. I have some agencies in mind and I’m trying to use new connections to hook me up with those people.
In terms of dream projects, Rachel Sennott is working on an HBO show about girls in New York City I’m like, put me in coach. I would also love to do a period piece. It could be fun like Bridgerton or it could be totally serious. Just put me in a corset.
So yeah, I’ve had the opportunity to film some very exciting auditions recently as well as meet some very cool people. I’m thankful for it all. I also regularly play Dungeons and Dragons live on Twitch with tabletopnotch and that will always be the best part of my week. It would be a dream to one day get to be on Dimension20, DropoutTV’s DnD show. There are lots of dream projects on my list, and with everything that’s happened since “Apple,” it finally feels like all those things are possible.
@kelley.heyer I decided to just let the wave take me at the end 💀
