In celebration of our 30 year anniversary (of our first date, we’ve been married for 19 years), I asked my shy wife, Mia, to do an “Interview with my S.O.” Her response was “I will humor you.” I hope you enjoy it!

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How do you identify?

Mia: Lesbian, queer.

Tracy: Same with me, lesbian and queer.

Mia: Gay.

Tracy: Gay works too.

Mia: Gay, lesbian, queer.

Tracy: Super gay, that works as well.

How did we meet and get together?

Tracy: I’m excited to ask you this question because I always tell this story first, and I think you should get a chance to tell the story from your perspective.

Mia: We met in the fall of 1992, I was a customer at the video store, and you were a clerk at the video store. I noticed you working there, and we officially talked for the first time on Coming Out Day, October 11th in 1992. We saw each other earlier at the Coming Out Day block party. Prior to that I had a really rough year. I had a breakup, I had some issues with my family, I had all this drama at work. I was living on my own, I had a pretty high rent, I had a lot of stresses, and then I had a stalker stalking me, and that was terrible. I was pretty much dealing with all of those things, and then by the fall I just was like, I’m in a better place. We started talking about videos, and that kind of thing. I would try to think of good little conversations…bits and pieces.

And then I asked you if Oranges Are Not the Only Fruit was out on video, even though I knew it wasn’t. But maybe it was coming out and you knew – you were the video store person. I asked you and you said no, but you said it aired on PBS and I missed it. Jeanette Winterson was my favorite author. I really loved that book, and you said you had a friend who taped it. When I came in the next day you said you had a copy of it for me. You had already seen it so I just said, “Well, too bad you’ve already seen it or I’d ask you to come over and watch it,” and that was my very lesbian way of asking you out, because you could be like, “Yeah, I’ve seen it,” or you’d take the hint and watch it again.

Tracy: What did I say? What was my answer?

Mia: You said, “I’ll watch it again!” And we made a date for a couple days later when you had off from work, and that was our first date (November 9, 1992).

Tracy: Can I tell my side of the story? Just a little bit, real quick.

Mia: Just a little bit.

Tracy: I started working at the video store in June or July, and it was the cool video store – gay owned, had all the queer movies, all the foreign films…the film snob video store. I noticed you immediately when you came in the door the first time, and I thought you were super cute, and I was attracted to you right away. You are my perfect type. For months, all the way until October, I tried to be friendly and flirty and smiley, and you’d just return your videos, turn around and leave. At one point I remember I was locking my bike up outside and I saw you walking towards the video store. I went to say hello and I was like, “Forget it, she’s not going to talk to me.” But then you eventually did.

What are our big three astrological signs? How do you feel about that?

Mia: I don’t even understand that question.

Tracy: Right, same. I think we’re coming out as non-astrological lesbians.

Mia: I guess Sagittarius, because that’s me, and then fire signs, Leo and Aries, I get along with fire signs the best. I mean, I will read my horoscope sometimes, and I’ve had our numerology done, and somewhere I have written down yours, mine, and our kid’s rising, moon, and all that stuff. It’s very fire sign-y around here.

Tracy: You’re a Sagittarius.

Mia: I am. I’m very Sagittarius too.

Tracy: I’m a Leo. I don’t really believe in it, however, that being said, I’m very Leo, I am a quintessential Leo, all the things listed for Leo it’s like…that’s me.

Mia: I’m very Sagittarius, from what Sagittarius’s actually know about us. There’s some things that are just not true, that are perpetual myths.

Tracy: Like what?

Mia: Well, can’t commit, and that’s not it, there needs to be a sense of freedom, we don’t like being stuck. A sense of feeling stuck is bad but that doesn’t mean relationship-wise we can’t commit. We’re actually very loyal.

Tracy: Yeah, you’re one of the most loyal people I know.

What do you enjoy most about our relationship?

Mia: I enjoy the fact day to day we’re on the same wavelength with how we live our lives, it makes it very easy. What gives me the most peace is the day to day. We both are independent, and we respect that independence about each other, but day to day – from being able to plan a meal, or just plan our day, or just the groove of our life – it’s easy. What’s important to us, from ethics, to where we shop, how we manage our household…all of those things. It’s just nice to not have to worry your partner’s not composting. That’s important to you too. Silly things like that, that synergy, it’s nice.

Tracy: Like we don’t have to fight about not shopping at Walmart.

Mia: Yeah the synergy of that, because that’s important to me. Ethically how I live my life is so important. If I had to have daily battles about that it wouldn’t suit me well. I like that groove.

Tracy: The thing I like most about our relationship is I can count on our marriage over anything else in life. If things are hard, like parenting, or work, or life, or somebody’s sick…those things are so up and down. Our relationship I can always count on to be good. I just don’t have to worry, and it’s easy. There’s so much of a “marriage is hard ” narrative, but it’s actually one of the easiest things in my life, the thing I can count on the most, and it makes me happy every day. Even if we have a fight or something, I know at the end of the day we’ll make up and it’ll be fine.

What hurdles or obstacles have we overcome together in our relationship?

Mia: Death, death of friends, that’s the worst.

Tracy: Yeah.

Mia: Parenting is really hard, and running a business can be a challenge. It has its pluses and minuses, but just going through the hard parts of life, like people dying, is the hardest. Watching people get sick or worrying about friends and family members.

Tracy: The absolute hardest thing was Sara dying.

Mia: Yeah, that was the hardest thing. Parenting is hard on a daily basis, it’s just a lot.

Tracy: Parenting is like…the highs are so high, when it’s good it’s the greatest, magical. But when it’s hard it’s the literal hardest thing you can go through.

Where do you locate our relationship on the monogamy/polyamory spectrum? What philosophies do you have around how you handle monogamy? How do you feel this impacts our relationship?

Mia: I’m monogamous and I’m an introvert, there’s absolutely no time for more than one relationship around here for me, I just can’t even imagine, personally. That’s my personal philosophy on it. I couldn’t deal with the drama of multiple partners coming and going. That’s just not who I am. That’s just it.

Tracy: Right. I think it’s funny, we’ve been a monogamous couple for 30 years, and we’ve now seen two rounds of monogamy not being cool.

Mia: Yeah, I’ve thought about that recently. In the 90s we were judged as a couple, people thought we were just ridiculous, and I don’t know, old fashioned…there was a lot of judgment. And now I can see with Gen Z monogamy is on the outs.

Tracy: In the 90s, especially in queer activist culture, it was not cool to be monogamous. But now I think there’s a truer understanding of polyamory and a realization monogamy just isn’t for everyone. Now there is not as much judgment if you do choose to be monogamous. I think people became more open minded.

Mia: I think it’s better now, I don’t feel necessarily judged, and poly people probably have a better experience now too.

Tracy: Even though you and I are monogamous, we are not jealous people. I trust you completely. I always say if you went on a business trip and you flirted with girls, it’s a self-esteem boost. You’re cute, you deserve romantic attention from the world, so that’s fine with me.

Mia: I’ve been pushed out of the way at shows you played at by women so they can talk to you, so I’ve seen active flirtation, and I trust you as well. I think it’s fine.

Tracy: Yeah, no jealousy. And over the course of our 30 year relationship, we’ve also given each other space to have crushes on other people. Earlier on in the relationship…now I’m 52 and tired.

Mia: Those windows and doors are closed.

Tracy: Yeah, I don’t have that kind of energy.

Mia: Now I just want a good night’s sleep.

Tracy: I know, now the thought of sleeping in is just as exciting as a full blown affair to me.

What is our living situation like? Together, separate, long distance, something else, how often do we see each other and why?

Mia: We live together, we work together, there are days where we’re literally together almost 24 hours straight.

Tracy: How do you feel about that?

Mia: It works for us. Obviously it wouldn’t work for everybody. I need alone time, so I try to carve out that for myself, because that’s important to me, and I think it’s important for each of us to spend time alone with our kid too. And I like to spend time with the three of us together. But yeah, this is the way it’s always been for us, almost our entire relationship, so I can’t imagine it any other way.

Tracy: I like you being in my airspace all the time, you know what I mean? Working next to each other at work, or doing whatever. We’ve been together for so long and we are together in the same place so often you’ve become part of my atmosphere.

Mia: We travel on our own sometimes, and I think it’s good and healthy to have times when we do stuff independently. That’s important.

Tracy: Yeah, we’re both super independent, and doing stuff solo is highly encouraged. I want you to go spend a weekend with friends in another city, and I love going to shows by myself, and I do business trips by myself, and I enjoy it.

How do we share expenses or work out finances? How do we share or split up labor in the relationship? Can you talk about why that is?

Mia: I think people fall into patterns, and there can be patterns that just fit the person better. I do most of the day to day parenting logistics, but I don’t mind that. My brain thinks about it anyway, it would be silly to not be doing something that’s important to me. We work together so all of our expenses are split, everything’s 50/50 because we make the same salary. We are both really fiscally responsible, so that works out well. And you manage the money, because you love to do that. It works out. I think things fall into place for the most part. I guess the things neither of us is good at or we don’t like to do–

Tracy: That stuff just gets neglected.

Mia: It gets neglected, yeah. But I think it’s pretty egalitarian, and based on either preference, what somebody is good at, or enjoys to do.

Tracy: I obsessively listen to financial podcasts and almost think of nothing other than finances and retiring early and putting everything in place possible to make that happen. I check on our accounts literally multiple times a day, and I love it, I love doing it. But if I have to be completely honest, things are probably not even, you definitely do more house stuff. Also it’s because you do it quicker than I would, so then you wind up doing it.

Mia: I want things done, so I can either do them, I can ask you to do them, or I can just, I don’t know, stew about it, which seems silly. I need to keep busy, because I have that anxious energy, and it’s the way my brain works.

Tracy: I’m very spoiled, I’m definitely spoiled.

Mia: Yes, you don’t do the dishes.

Tracy: I don’t do the dishes, but you knew that, you knew what you signed up for.

Mia: You don’t even put them in the dishwasher though, that’s something you could change.

Tracy: Sometimes I remember.

Mia: Barely, the dishwasher is the lowest bar.

Tracy: When we listen to the PANTS podcast and Kate’s wife Ana brings her something deliciously prepared to eat while she’s doing the podcast, that makes me think of you in the mornings when you bring up coffee before I’ve even opened my eyes. I did it this morning though!

Mia: You did, it was a shock.

Tracy: But really, it’s like twice a year I bring the coffee up.

Mia: That’s true.

Do we have kids, pets, plants? All three?

Mia: We have a 16 year old human child and a pet cat.

Tracy: Her [the cat’s] name is Doris.

Mia: And we now have plants. Since the pandemic and the house fire we had, we have learned to care for select varieties of plants. I like having plants. And we have a garden.

Tracy: Why do we have a kid? Are you in agreement over the kid?

Mia: We have a kid because you wanted a kid, and I thought about it, spent time on it and agreed to it. Agreed that I was all in.

Tracy: I did not think the ‘biological clock” was real, I thought it was just a myth women were told to keep having babies. But then I hit 30-something and it totally went off, and it’s like an obsession, you become obsessed with wanting to have a baby. It’s so weird, because I was never that person. I didn’t want a baby when I was little and I didn’t in my twenties. I didn’t ever really think about parenthood, and then it hit me. But when I brought it up to you I always said, “If you decide you don’t want to do this, I am not going to be resentful, I will be like, ‘Okay,'” Because I value the known, which is you and my relationship with you, versus, at the time, a fictitious baby.

So how’s that worked out? She’s cool, she’s a cool kid.

Mia: She’s a cool kid, a very interesting, very unique person.

Tracy: I think she’s brought a lot of joy into our lives, we’re a little team, the three of us together are a team. I had dreams of being the world’s coolest lesbian moms, and sometimes I feel like that’s happening.

Mia: I don’t ever feel like that. I never thought I would have children, so I had no expectations, which I think can be good for her because I don’t have preconceived notions of what she should do. But I do have hopes and dreams for her life, and it takes up 75% of my brain capacity, if not more at this stage.

Tracy: Worrying about her?

Mia: Worrying about her and managing her life. Some days it’s probably closer to 98% of what’s going on in my brain. But she’s just a teenager, so I don’t know, it’ll probably change a little bit, but I know my mom still thinks about all of us.

How would you describe the sex we have together? Do you believe in lesbian bed death and, if so, has it or do you think it could visit our relationship? What haven’t we done together but would like to?

Tracy: I’m going to preface this by– [Mia made a semi-horrified face] your face, Mia! You don’t have to answer anything you don’t feel like answering, but I think our job here, as a super long term couple, is to be a voice from the future to say if lesbian bed death is real or not.

Mia: Yes, I’ll answer those things, I’m not going to answer all of that question because it’s just personal. And I don’t even like doing interviews, let alone-

Tracy: Sex stuff.

Mia: Do I think lesbian bed death is real…I guess it’s real. I don’t know, it’s not real in our relationship. I mean, it’s challenging to be a parent and keep your sex life active, I’ll say that, but if it’s important to you I think you have to do what it takes to keep it active. I mean, for me, personally. If you are in a couple and you both decide you don’t want to have sex, that’s legitimate.

Tracy: Of course, like companionate relationships.

Mia: Yeah, that’s what I meant.

Tracy: Any relationship both people have agreed upon is good.

Mia: As long as you’ve both agreed to it, and you haven’t just let sex die and you are both secretly unhappy. But I think it’s a myth, a societal myth, that sex dies for all people who grow older. People continue to have sex their entire lives, and the idea that people who get older stop having sex, or stop wanting to have sex…I don’t think it’s as true as the media and society, makes it out to be. When you look at real interviews of people who are in their 80s, they’re still having sex.

Tracy: As you know, I am more willing to talk about sex than you are.

Mia: Yes.

Tracy: I am here from the future to say lesbian bed death does not have to visit your relationship. It’s not an inevitability.

Mia: No.

Tracy: It has not visited ours. We still do it on the regular. I think the only time during our relationship we weren’t doing it as much was my first trimester of pregnancy because I felt so sick and was not in the mood. That was hard, but otherwise, I’m still super attracted to you. I think you’re hot. I still want to do it.

Mia: It changes, but I don’t think there’s any reason to mourn the change of it. I feel like we’re lucky because we’ve experienced all these parts of our relationship. It’s going to change but that doesn’t mean it’s bad.

Tracy: Yeah. Of course, when you have new relationship energy, you’re doing it all the time, and then that fades. Is that “lesbian bed death?” I don’t know. Is lesbian bed death a real thing, or is it just for all couples, regardless of sexual/gender orientation, desire does wane. Especially from the first year or two, but it isn’t destined to go away entirely especially if you’re still attracted to each other and into each other. I’m super into you, and I think you’re hot. After three decades of being with each other, the neat thing is you know each other very well.

We’re both going through menopause now and I’ve gone through a pregnancy.

Mia: I’m through. I’m through menopause.

Tracy: You’re done. Yeah. I’m in the middle of it. Things do change, but they don’t change for the bad. They change for the interestingly different in what you like to do and what your favorite thing is to do. It evolves, but I think that’s cool. I feel like we know each other so well and we’re in it for the ride.

Mia: There will be more changes because you get older, and you just adjust.

Tracy: Yeah, I enjoy being on this ride with you. The question, “What haven’t you done together but want to do” – with a kid in the house, just being somewhere alone where we don’t have to worry about volume or duration sounds like varsity level sex right now.

Mia: Even this conversation…I’m worrying it’s too loud.

Tracy: Right. Also, I did the math, and we’ve had sex over 3,000 times together.

Mia: Just an estimate, you mean.

Tracy: No, a fact, over 3,000 times. Yeah. That’s, like, over 6,000 orgasms so …

Mia: That’s a lot.

Tracy: Yeah, good for us.

Mia: Yeah.

Do you think our relationship will, more or less, continue to exist as it currently is and why?

Mia: It’s going to change because we’re parents. I think it’s going to change a lot when our kid is eventually not living with us anymore, and we’re not working. I think it’s going to be a positive thing. I look at my parents as role models for retirement and how they just continued to make friends and learn new things and do things together and separately. So, I think it’ll evolve into the next stage.

Tracy: Yeah, I agree. When we’re empty nesters and no longer working, it’s going to be just a whole new phase. I can’t even imagine what that’s going to feel like right now, but I think it’s going to be amazing. Like you said, your parents are awesome and I love that they kept friendships going, and they volunteered. They did all these things. I see that for us too. I see us traveling and just enjoying life.

What would you say are our most fundamental differences?

Mia: I’m an introvert. I like quiet and alone time and just quiet silence, and I recharge from being alone. I think that’s our biggest difference.

Tracy: Oh yeah, absolutely. I’m an extrovert. I like loud music. Not that I can’t sit in silence, but I don’t need to.

Mia: I don’t think you can. I honestly don’t. I don’t think you or the kid can sit in silence. There’s always got to be something on.

Tracy: I like music versus TV. If I had a choice, I would prefer music or a podcast or something.

Mia: When I’m at home alone, sometimes. it’s just nothing. I have nothing on, just so I can have some silence.

Tracy: I need zero alone time. I get really bored by myself. I love doing stuff, and I get my batteries recharged by being around people and doing things. It’s definitely the biggest difference between you and me, but I think it’s a complementary difference. I love shy introverts. I know my friends, when we were first going out, thought you just didn’t like them, but it’s really that you’re shy.

Mia: I’m just quiet and shy. Yeah.

Tracy: For me, it’s like, I see somebody who’s quiet and shy, and I want to get to know you, like draw you out.

Do you have any shared dreams, goals for the future or each other?

Mia: We share our retirement dreams. I think I may want to get out of here a little bit more than you do, out of the city we’re living in now for a quieter, smaller city. I see that, but I think we want the same things. We want a different place that we’d go to.

Tracy: That’s not a deal breaker even though I love Philadelphia so much. I love living here. I love it, the good and bad. But at the same time, in retirement, I want to live in different places. I want to spend months here, months there, and have a home base in Philly.

Mia: We share that. I want to find some more things I enjoy to do independently because I need that. I don’t have a lot of that.

Tracy: I want that for you too.

Mia: I want both of us to be able to do those things, to pursue our hobbies, and continue to do the things we like to do together.

Tracy: Ooh, I also want to live outside of the United States. That’s always been a goal of ours.

Mia: That’s been my goal since I was 20. Ideally, I’d like to have a property outside of the US.

Tracy: Same.

What piece of pop culture do we share? What piece of pop culture reminds you of our relationship? What’s our movie, our show, our book, or our song?

Mia: Oh my gosh.

Tracy: It’s so hard.

Mia: We’ve been together a long time. There’s a lot. So many TV shows. I can’t even.

Tracy: Well, you know I’m a queer TV connoisseur and data scientist with LezWatch.TV. You and I have always shared a love of television. We were both born at 8:00 p.m., prime time. Honestly, I think that’s why our relationship works because we both love TV so much and prioritize it.

Mia: We both love TV, so I mean, I don’t know. We have a lot of shared-

Tracy: Xena! Xena’s probably the earliest.

Mia: Xena, Team Dresch, going to queercore shows

Tracy: Third Sex, Team Dresch, Tribe 8, Sex Pod.

Mia: Sex Pod, yeah. I would say the perfection of Team Dresch would be a music thing is just–

Tracy: A part of our history.

Well, my song for you is, Still Into You by Paramore because the lyrics are how I feel about you. I’m still into you. I am excited to see you when you walk in a room even though I just saw you 10 minutes before. I still get a little bit of butterflies when I see you because you’re really cute.

Mia: Do I Love You by Ella Fitzgerald still always reminds me of you.

Tracy: There was a series of Ella Fitzgerald–

Mia: Yes. The Cole Porter Song Books.

Tracy: Yeah, the Song Books with different composers that came out when we were first going out.

Mia: I love Ella Fitzgerald and Cole Porter is one of my favorites and his music stays timely. So, it’s like an oldie time song, but still reminds me of you. There’s a lot of other songs, but that one just always stayed for the whole length of our relationship.

Tell a funny story about me.

Tracy: I knew the questions ahead of time, so I had time to think about this.

Mia: Go first because I haven’t had a chance to think about it.

Tracy: I can’t really think of a funny story, but one story about you I like is when a band was playing upstairs at The Balcony after Patti Smith. The crowd was really weird because Philly music crowds can be aggressive and annoying, but after the Patti Smith show there was another show at the upstairs venue, a smaller venue. Some of the crowd from the Patti Smith show made its way upstairs, which were dudes who were jerks.

Mia: They shouldn’t even have been allowed to be there.

Tracy: Yeah. It was like some queer or woman-fronted-

Mia: It was a woman-fronted band. Yeah.

Tracy: So, this one dude was harassing our friend. You can tell the story better because you probably remember it better.

Mia: I do remember it really well. Yeah. He just kept harassing a friend over and over again, and I kept telling him to stop, and he wouldn’t stop. So, I just got between them and I just… He was holding a beer, and I took my hand, and flipped his hands, so he flipped the beer into his face. Then, he just wanted to hit me, but there was a moment where I think he was realizing that I’m a woman, and he just wanted to hit me and just stood there. I was so mad. That’s a funny story?

Tracy: Well, it’s not funny. But it was like something out of a movie. You just flipped his beer.

Mia: I did.

Tracy: You just stood your ground, and he-

Mia: I did. I was so mad.

Tracy: He was confused like, “Oh.” Then, he backed away, right?

Mia: He did. He backed off.

Tracy: I think it’s super hot.

Mia: Yeah. Funny story. God, I don’t know.

Tracy: There has to be a treasure trove of comedy having a Filipina mother-in-law.

Mia: I mean, I feel like we laugh a lot, but I don’t know. I have to think about it.

Tracy: It’s hard to come up with a funny story on the spot.

[Later]

Tracy: Okay. You thought of a funny story.

Mia: I did. I have a funny story. So right before our 20-year anniversary, I got a really good idea. We had been together long enough that I wanted to get a tattoo with your name and a heart, a really classic tattoo. And we always joked about not getting someone’s name tattooed on you, and everything. But I was like, “Okay, 20 years feels like a good long commitment.” So I thought, “We can go to New York where Emma, our tattoo artist, worked.” I contacted her and said, “It’s a surprise. Don’t tell Tracy. And this is the weekend we want to come, and I’ll get her to the studio.”

And so there was some back and forth trying to pick the right day. And then eventually, she just couldn’t take it anymore. And had to tell us we each had contacted her separately to get tattoos with each other’s names. She couldn’t take trying to manage the logistics of it. And she just had to tell us both. I thought that was funny.

Tracy: But it was nice, because then we made it a thing. We went to the studio and both got them.

Mia: Yes, it was much easier on Emma.

Tracy: I can’t believe that was 10 years ago. It doesn’t feel like 10 years ago.

Mia: It does not feel like 10 years ago.

Tracy: But you know we have to be together for at least 48 more years, because I want us both to at least hit 100 years old.

Mia: Right. Maybe we’ll get tattoos again.

Tracy: At 100?

Mia: Yeah.

Tracy: Okay!