Welcome to Interviews With My Ex-Girlfriend in which Autostraddle writers get back in touch with their ex-girlfriends to ask them Five Simple Questions:

1. How long did we date?
2. Why did we break up?
3. What did you learn from our relationship?
4. What do you miss most about me?
5. Would you invite me to your wedding (why/why not)?

Kelly and I met in Halifax, Nova Scotia in 2008 at some kind of back-to-school barbeque that the LGBTQ student group at Dalhousie University was putting on. We were both Master’s students, although Kelly was a year into hers and I had just moved across the country to start mine. It was my first time living outside the province I grew up in and I had only come out a few years earlier. We both ended up becoming part of this Dalhousie queer crowd and for a little while were both dating other girls from that group who were also dating each other, but secretly? That was weird. Anyway, we were good friends for a while, until we stopped dating those other people and started dating each other. We lived on the same block of the North End of Halifax but u-hauled fairly early anyway. I remember when I asked my roommates if it would be cool if she moved in, they told me that she pretty much lived there already, so she might as well start paying rent. We left Halifax after graduating from school and did a bunch of travelling, in New Zealand, Costa Rica, and B.C., before we moved to London, ON where we both started PhD programs (Kelly eventually finished hers, I … did not). In 2012, we were both leaving London, heading out to our respective home coasts — hers east and mine west — for indefinite amounts of time. We were still technically a couple when we parted ways. I didn’t know at the time that that would be the last time we saw each other in person, to this day.

Casey: It’s nice to be interviewing someone I know. I’ve been really nervous when I interviewed authors. I always feel awkward.

Kelly: It’s harder when you’re not just sitting down with somebody. I’d be nervous. Wait, is that a ponytail? Holy shit, your hair’s really long.

Casey: I know.

Kelly: Oh my god, I didn’t even see that.

Casey: Okay. What’s the first question… How long did we date?

Kelly: Three and a half years.

Casey: Was it three and a half?

Kelly: We started dating in …

Casey: 2009?

Kelly: I’m getting it mixed up, cause we went to New Zealand in October. What month did we start dating? We started dating in February.

Casey: Yeah, cause our anniversary was Valentine’s Day. No, no, it was just before Valentine’s Day.

Kelly: February 2008!  ‘Cause we went to New Zealand in 2009 and moved to London in 2010.

Casey: No I think that’s a year off because I graduated from UVic in April 2007 and I lived in Victoria for a year and then I moved to Halifax in the fall of 2008.

Kelly: Yeah, we met in 2008 and got together in 2009. And then we went to New Zealand that October. We weren’t together very long before we went to New Zealand.

Casey: Yeah, before we, like, moved into a tent together.

Kelly: Exactly. So three and a half years. Maybe three years and a quarter if you want to get specific.

Casey: Yeah, cause I’ve been thinking about that with my current relationship with Jorge, which is now my longest relationship.

Kelly: How long have you guys been together?

Casey: It’s probably about the same amount of time that you and I dated. A little over three years now.

Kelly: That’s right, cause June is your anniversary.

Casey: What?! How do you know that?

Kelly: Is it June?

Casey: No, umm what is our anniversary…No, it’s in April! April 21st.

Kelly: Yeah, so you and I were together about a month less than that. Well congratulations.

Casey: Thank you. How long have you and Erin been together now?

Kelly: Going on five?

Casey: Whoa.

Kelly: Yeah, I know. It’s longer than me and Alex because we broke up and then got back together.

Casey: Oh yes, it’s always hard to know if that counts.

Kelly: This is the longest I’ve been with someone without breaking up.

Casey: Okay so three years and three months. Good, now we have a very precise date. Number one is done! Number two: why did we break up? Many reasons?

Kelly: Many reasons. I didn’t know who I was. I would say that we started to drift apart and then I just didn’t know what I wanted. What’s your take on why we broke up?

Casey: Um.

Kelly: You can say I was a jerk.

Casey: Ha! No, that makes sense to me. You got into this space where you were trying to figure out who you were and what you wanted. Being with me, you were kind of forced into or trying on this certain role that maybe wasn’t the best fit for you. It wasn’t super natural for you. Also we were very similar in some ways and I was wanting someone who was different from me in ways that you weren’t. Like, I remember when we were in New Zealand and I made you call all the places we were going to stay at cause I hate talking to strangers on the phone. You know, that kind of thing, where I was like, you do this role.

Kelly: I’ve been thinking about this a little. In some ways we were too much alike. There were certain things about you that were too similar to me that almost threatened me. But then I was also threatened by some of the ways that we were different. The ways we were alike and different didn’t always overlap comfortably. They overlapped well as friends. But I think we were uncomfortable with the roles we were falling into. Well, I’ll speak for me. I was uncomfortable with the role I was falling into.

Casey: I don’t think I realized that at the time but I can see that now.

Kelly: I think that’s hard with two women. I think that’s a distinct problem that two women face. It’s that, first you’re friends with somebody. And you know you’re compatible. But you don’t know if you’re compatible just as friends or if you’re compatible as a couple because you care about each other. And then I think it can be hard as well because then there’s a lot of flexibility with roles and it’s awesome—

Casey: Yeah, you can create whatever you want. But if you don’t know what you want, then it’s kind of hard!

Kelly: Exactly!

Casey: Or if you’re just trying things out. Like, I don’t know, maybe this will work!

Kelly: It can be hard to not have as much of a formula that you can change.

Casey: This is reminding me of that conversation we had over Christmas break before we got together and we were instant messaging. You were trying to see if I might be interested and I wrote back something like “yes, this is why we’re great friends” and then you were like, “oh, rejected”!

Kelly: I forgot about that!

Casey: See, maybe I was right all along!

Kelly: Yeah, we were great friends. Do you have anything you want to add to that?

Casey: I don’t know, this is more for me personally, but I was at this transitional period with other stuff in my life where my anxiety had gotten really bad, I had decided I didn’t want to do the English PhD anymore and that also meant I was moving away from London and you were also moving back to Halifax to do your research. It felt like in other parts of our lives we were going in different directions. I’m sure if things had been great in the relationship at that point we could have sustained it but…

Kelly: We would have been forced to work through things and make more finite decisions had we not been leaving at that time. But it was easy for it to fizzle out because we went to opposite coasts and didn’t work at it. It was a weird time. London was really hard.

Casey: Yeah, it was. I have to say I don’t have great memories of that place.

Kelly: We went through a lot together. I’ll say, I grew up with you. I was a kid. I hadn’t left Nova Scotia. There were a lot of growing pains there.

In Nova Scotia

Casey: It’s funny because I always thought you were the one who knew a lot about relationships when we were together. I was like, “well she knows more than me because” — wait, how long were you and Alex together?

Kelly: 6 years.

Casey: I thought, well she must know tons about relationships. Good thing I can follow her lead!

Kelly: I think that’s also what made me uncomfortable, because I was seen as this bastion of knowledge which I was not. I mean, Alex and I were crazy, that was not a good example. I see now that that was all I knew. I didn’t know what to expect either. And you didn’t know, so we were trying to create it based on not knowing a lot.

Casey: Another thing I’ve been thinking about is how much is good to have in common with your partner. I feel like with Jorge and with Liz — with him and her I wish and wished we had more of our interests in common. I really liked that about our relationship. We always wanted to go to the same events, we were always interested in the same stuff. Whenever I wanted to go to something, it was great, because you wanted to go to that too. And that’s nice, but it’s not something, it’s not a factor that’s strong enough to keep the relationship together.

Kelly: I would say I miss that too, if that’s one of our topics.

Casey: Oh yeah, that is one of the questions. But the next one is, what did you learn from our relationship?

Kelly: Oh, so much. I … you go first!

Casey: Hey, you’re the interviewee, what do you mean I go first?

Kelly: Well, see before I was with you I was with someone who was really domineering in their personality and I thought I was this super introverted person. And when I got with you, this whole extroverted thing came out and part of it, yeah I didn’t love having a role all the time, but part of it was great. I loved what you brought out in me because I didn’t know it was there. So I felt strong and I learned a lot of things about myself, that I could be this extroverted person who was confident. That helped me grow as a person. If we started dating in 2009, then that’s eight years ago. That’s fucked up, a long time ago. We were 24.

Casey: That’s young.

Kelly: I learned who I could be outside of the other people I’d been with. I learned who I was outside of the place I grew up in. You led me to travel the world. I hadn’t travelled before, I was petrified. I mean, it was hard. I cried in New Zealand, I cried in B.C., I cried everywhere but it was so important. I learned a lot about myself. And I learned bad things too. I learned that I can be controlling. I learned that I need to let go of some things. For me, you were my second relationship, so once you’ve had a couple relationships, you see yourself through different people’s eyes and you start to see some of those patterns. I learned a lot about what I needed to change.

Casey: We were on different trajectories in that way, because it was your second long-term relationship, but it was my first long-term relationship. Not that we were exactly a model for how to be in a relationship, but I feel like I learned what an intimate partnership was and what that feels like from us. When I’m thinking about my current relationship I often think back to us. It’s nice to know that I have a measure of how I was in our relationship but I know that’s not how I always have to be in a relationship. Does that make sense?

Kelly: Yeah, it’s good to know because we react so much off other people, as humans. When we’re with someone we can see parts of ourselves, things that we like, things that we don’t like.

Casey: I feel like I know myself a lot better in my relationship now, I know what I want, what are negotiable things I can compromise on and what I can’t compromise on, that I wouldn’t have realized before.

Kelly: I came out of our relationship knowing what I needed, based on things I got, things I didn’t get out of the relationship. I also learned that relationships don’t always have to be hard. Compared to my first relationship, you were so easy. If I hadn’t gotten frustrated and needed something more, if I hadn’t had an issue, I think we would have just coasted along, because you were just so … easy. And sometimes I knew that you weren’t super satisfied, but you didn’t know the words of what you needed, which was hard, but overall it was very smooth. So I think I learned that you don’t always have to fight. That was nice! Our first three years felt easy to me. Conflict-free.

Casey: Yeah easy and comfortable. We never fought. Maybe we should have fought more.

Kelly: I feel like I was picking fights because I wanted more, I wanted to know what was going on in that Pisces brain of yours.

Casey: I knew you were going to bring up astrology!

Kelly: It’s for Autostraddle, we have to bring up astrology.

Casey: When you were talking about these extroverted and introverted sides of yourself, that was reminding me of your Gemininess. Where you’ve got the two twins thing going on.

Kelly: I do, and that can be hard for anyone, not just me reacting off you. That’s something I have to deal with in me. I mean, I have conflict with myself. I’m really vocal, I’m really verbal, and that’s a reason we didn’t get along as well at the end as a couple. We have different ways of communicating. That’s still a problem for me. I still struggle in my present relationship with communication. Wanting to spell things out in certain ways instead of being intuitive.

Casey: That’s another thing I learned from our relationship. In the relationship with you I felt like I was doing things wrongs if I was communicating in certain ways and I realize now that I have a certain tendency of how to be and how to communicate and I don’t have to change that. I can compromise and do things differently, but… Again because I was looking to you as this relationship expert when we were together, I thought, oh she’s saying that I’m not doing this, I must be doing this completely wrong, how can I do better? I realize now that, no, it’s fine that I don’t communicate the way you were wanting.

Okay number four is, what do you miss most about me? And, I guess, our relationship? I already said I miss how we liked all of the same things and wanted to go to the same events.

Kelly: I know! I was thinking the same thing so I’m trying to think of something different. I miss the fact that we had such a friendship, built into our relationship. That it was based on similar tastes in music and just culture. In terms of lesbian culture — you identified as a lesbian at the time — so our familiarity with mainstream lesbian culture. I think at the time we thought of ourselves in a similar way in relation to movies and music and books.

Casey: Sometimes I think back on that time in my life, when we were together, in Halifax some but more London where I really felt like I was a part of a queer women’s community. I’ve never found that in Vancouver, even before me and Jorge got together. I don’t know if that was more our relationship or just that time and place in my life.

Kelly: I really liked that our relationship was conducive to that. That we said, okay, let’s live in this house with another couple. That’s one thing I miss about us, I guess a good way to say it would be its flexibility. We were really open to new things together. We lived with that other couple in that big house and we built this beautiful thing, the ladies of Lorne [the street we lived on] and the parties we had. I really liked that about you, you just kind of create, or I don’t know if you create them, but they come to you, these special little worlds.

Casey: Aw, that’s nice.

Kelly: I always felt that you had great people in your life. You had a decent read on people. I get charmed by people and you always had a decent read on people.

Casey: Oh my god, do you remember when we met my friend Heather’s new girlfriend—

Kelly: I was thinking of the same thing!

Casey: You were so charmed by her and I was like, oh my god, she’s terrifying.

Kelly: Then a week later I was like, oh you’re right. I still talk about that, how she screamed at me for using the word gay in that bar [note: it was a gay bar] and how she told me that I was trans and that she had a hard time saying she for me.

Casey: So offensive.

Kelly: But anyway, you have a good read on people. And you had really nice people in your life. I miss that. Your life felt very youthful and you had this amazing crew of people in your life that I felt like I got adopted into. That was really special. I kind of had this other family.

Casey: I always think about you and our relationship when I think about Nova Scotia. I texted you the other day when I was reading that book set in rural Nova Scotia because it was reminding me so much of you. I think very fondly of Nova Scotia. I only lived in Halifax for a year, so I wouldn’t have had that kind of attachment to Nova Scotia if we hadn’t been together for years after that and I hadn’t gotten to visit it every holiday and in the summers.

Kelly: And you saw rural Nova Scotia, you know, the real stuff.

Casey: I miss that about you. If we were still together I would have an excuse to go to Nova Scotia all the time which I do not have anymore.

Kelly: Yeah, I miss B.C. too. Also, especially talking to you again, I miss your youthfulness. You always felt very light. Even when you were really stressed, you just kind of ran around like a little baby deer. I can be really heavy and intense, so I liked that.

Casey: You were so passionate about things. It was contagious when you got really excited about something. You were always starting new projects about whatever new thing it was that you were interested in—

Kelly: You should see me now at this fucking house. That hasn’t changed.

Casey: That’s nice to be around. Jorge’s great for me to be around, especially as an anxious person, because he’s very calm and very steady. He rarely gets angry, but he also rarely gets super pumped up about something. Sometimes with him I have to get into that role of saying, “let’s go do this thing, it’s going to be really fun.” He likes it when he’s there but when we’re at home he’s like, “Uh, I don’t wanna go anywhere.” I find it tiring to have to do that sometimes and it was great with you because it was you doing that.

Casey: Okay, next question: would you invite me to your wedding and why or why not?

Kelly: Oh, sure.

Casey: Wait, you guys are engaged!

Kelly: Yeah, we haven’t really planned it.

Casey: That happened a while ago, didn’t it? How long ago did you get engaged?

Kelly: A year ago.

Casey: That’s a long engagement.

Kelly: We’re cheap, and we’re going to Newfoundland this summer. We’re thinking next August. Just something little.

Casey: Aw, that sounds nice.

Kelly: Well I have no qualms about inviting you to my wedding. And Jorge.

Casey: It would be pretty strange to go to your wedding at this point, because I’ve literally never seen you in person since we broke up.

Kelly: Yeah I would invite you, but would you come?!

Casey: Well that’s the other part of the question. Realistically I have no money, so not unless it’s sometime when I have more! And flights are so expensive. Jorge and I are going to Japan in the fall and got return tickets from Vancouver to Tokyo for like $750. That’s less than it would be to go to Nova Scotia and back. Honestly, I would be very flattered and honored to be invited to your wedding and I would also invite you to mine, although I’m not engaged so that’s only theoretical for me, but I feel like it would be weird and emotional for me to see you in person again. I don’t know if your wedding would be the best time for that to happen. I don’t know exactly how I would feel. I’m sure things would come up. A wedding is about the two people getting married — I mean, I know sometimes it ends up being what their families want — but it’s supposed to be about them, not the shit that other people in their lives are going through. I feel like it would be better if I saw you in person at another point first before going to your wedding.

Kelly: Yeah, that makes sense. So do you have any more questions on your list?

Casey: No, that’s it! There’s only five. I think the idea of the questions is that they’re kind of a catalyst for talking about your relationship.

Kelly: Yeah, it got me walking down memory lane for sure.

Casey: Like I was saying before, when I think about where I am in my current relationship, I think of ours cause it was as long as the one I’m in now. But I don’t know what’s going to happen for me from now on cause I’ve only ever been in a relationship for three and a half years!

Kelly: I feel the same way with Erin. This is all new territory. Relationships are the most interesting thing in a person’s life, I think. They really show you who you are and they really shape your life. I’m trying to think if I have any regrets. I feel like I regret chickening out at the end. I didn’t know what I was feeling. I felt really confused and scared. It’s really unlike me to just let things fizzle away. That’s one regret I always had, how it ended. I just didn’t know why it wasn’t working. It’s hard for me to answer the question of why we broke up, because it wasn’t this moment or this thing, there was no cheating. I couldn’t put my finger on it, on what was going on. I don’t know if you could either.

Casey: Looking back I feel like it would have been better if you had just explicitly ended the relationship earlier. I guess it would have been awkward when we were still living in London.

Kelly: But I didn’t want to!

Casey: You had been checked out of the relationship for a while. You had started talking about us maybe dating other people. You told me, “oh I think Carrie likes you, you should hook up with her.” I was like, “what?!”

Kelly: I think I was really trying to explore what I was feeling.

Casey: That to me was a super weird red flag. I mean Carrie was cute and great and whatever, but I was not going to go hook up with her cause we were still together and that was not part of our relationship dynamic. You don’t remember that?

Kelly: Not really. That’s weird. I was weird. It’s hard for me to untangle everything else that was going on in our lives from our relationship. Even now I have a hard time doing that. Feeling about your own life versus how you feel about someone else. I was doing a really bad job of that at the time.

Casey: And because it was my first relationship I didn’t know what kind of things were stuff you should work on or get over or things that are “normal” conflicts or problems in a relationship. I had no idea how to tell if it was something that could be mended or not, our relationship.

Kelly: I couldn’t tell either. My relationship before that had been so volatile and so intense. Me and Alex did not know when to break up. I had no gauge for that either. But I feel like it wasn’t bad for very long. We didn’t go through this volatile time. I was absent for a while. You know what, it was after you went home for that Christmas.

Casey: That’s funny. I feel like our relationship had been going downhill since that September when we moved back to London.

Kelly: After being in Nova Scotia and B.C.?

Casey: Yeah I remember feeling comfortable and confident with you and in our relationship before and after that a little bit of nagging something that wasn’t right.

Kelly: What bothered me a lot was… Well I was really excited in some ways because with Alex I was often made to feel like I didn’t know things or made to feel stupid or small or whatever but with you I felt really strong and big. I felt significant. But then also there were times when I wanted you to overpower me. I wanted you to say “this is what you’re doing and it’s fucked up, stop it.” I felt like I was this whirling dervish, spinning around freaking out. That’s were Erin is really good, she has that finger that goes down on the whirling dervish, like: stop. I needed someone to tell me when I was fucking up. And to tell me what I was doing when I didn’t know what I was doing. When I didn’t know if I was checking out or being controlling or any of those things. I loved the feeling of being extroverted but it was almost like I went too far and I needed you to rein me in. I don’t know how else to describe it.

Casey: I don’t think I was capable of doing that then. I feel a lot more confident in my relationship now about being able to give Jorge a perspective outside himself that I couldn’t with you.

Kelly: That comes with age and maturity and having a lot of relationships. It’s something that you totally learn from being in relationships. I mean, Jorge is your second one after me.

Casey: There you go, there’s another thing I learned.

Kelly: You learned how to know what you need and to ask for it. To demand it!

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