Why is everyone so shocked that I want to be touched, but not penetrated?

Q:

I’m an older afab lesbian, got out of a long relationship, and I’ve recently started using apps for the first time. I am having a really confusing time trying to figure out how to identify in a way that’s legible to others. I see that people are using top/bottom/vers outside of kink contexts now.

A little background: I don’t enjoy receiving penetration. Years ago, I tried for a long while with 2 different girlfriends to achieve pleasure from it because it would be great to have that option, but it never worked. I’m not ideologically opposed to it but it doesn’t bring me any pleasure so I prefer clit stuff. I thought I qualified as vers, because I like touching others and being touched, so I put that in my profile. A couple of people have not reacted well to the fact that I don’t want to be penetrated. One woman was shocked at this revelation, I had to explain it to her several times and then she seemed really disappointed and I worried that she felt misled.

Someone else told me I’m a stone butch; there’s nothing wrong with that identity but I don’t think it fits me just because I was originally open to liking penetration and disappointed that it didn’t work for me. I’ve also had conversations with hookups and friends where they’ve said that afab people who don’t like penetration must be repressed, have sexual trauma, or have dysphoria, which are all valid/fair experiences to have but none of that applies to me.

I changed my profile to say I was a top before my most recent date, but then the other person didn’t want to touch me at all, which was what I feared would happen. I’m a bit awkward about flirting and we don’t tend to have explicit conversations beyond ‘I’m a top/bottom/verse’ or kink related terms in the profile before dates are made. Any suggestions?

A:

Kayla: I don’t know how helpful this is, but this does seem like an other people problem more than a you problem? It’s pretty unreasonable for people to be so judgmental or presumptive about you not wanting to receive penetration — whether you ID as a vers or a top in these situations. It sounds like you’ve mostly matched with/met up with people who have pretty narrow ideas of these categories, which are indeed useful for finding and having the sex we want to have but shouldn’t be wielded against us in the ways it seems like some people have done for you. I think you can feel free to use the descriptor that feels best for you and maybe even blend things (ie. toppy vers, which sounds like it might be fitting for you?) and then further specify your disinterest in being penetrated when talking more with someone about the specifics of your desires. Because yeah top/bottom/vers are just kind of starting points/shorthand when it comes to sex! Most people’s preferences and boundaries get a lot more specific after that and these labels can’t encompass everything about what we want/don’t want. Unfortunately, if people react the ways you’ve described, I think it’d be best to move along from them anyway. 

Riese: Yeah I would echo Kayla! It does seem like their problem, not yours. I don’t think you should be worrying that a woman who was disappointed you didn’t want to be penetrated felt misled, I don’t think anything you told her would be misleading! I do think these terms mean different things to different people, but 60% of tops in our survey did like being touched externally, so! Maybe in the past, the tops she’d dated didn’t like to be touched and so she was playing it safe — we do a lot of weird things the first time we have sex with someone if we haven’t done any prep for the encounter, like sexting or talking with more detail about what you’re into. If that happens again you can just let them know that you like being touched, you just don’t like being fucked. Which, by the way, is not uncommon, and anybody who told you that’s specifically a “stone butch” trait is wrong. There are a lot of people who find penetration painful, for example. 

Terms like top and bottom and verse can give us some indication of what somebody is into, but they’re not full descriptions. There are always variations within, and as much as we’d like simple words to be convenient shorthands, they can’t always be that. I think reading these posts about being a top, being a bottom, and being a switch might be helpful to you  just to really understand the wide variety of sexual activities enjoyed by people identifying all over the top/bottom/vers spectrum. Also anything we’ve published in that category.

Nico: I feel like enjoying touch while not wanting to be penetrated is actually so very common! One of the first out lesbians I ever met approached sex that way. She wasn’t stone, but she just didn’t want anything / anyone inside her, didn’t like it, and made that clear. And that’s an absolutely good and fine and neutral way to feel!

I love a before-the-sex what-do-you-like talk. It can be so quick. You just go “I’m into [insert what you like] and also I don’t want to be penetrated because it doesn’t do anything for me. What do you like?” I think that treating everything like it’s optional is a good approach for both people who are having sex. And not that you’re the one with the problem here because I really do think this is an other people problem, but no one should be expecting one thing or the other unless you’ve actually talked about it.

I’m curious about what dating app you’re using and if you can fill out your profile a bit more just to mention something like “I love to touch and be touched” to make it clear that you want partners to reciprocate, and then, once again, no one should be shocked that you have figured out what you do and don’t like in bed and that you have very normal preferences! Summer, below, has some more detailed suggestions for filling out dating app bios, and also, I agree with her that despite your best efforts, sometimes people don’t read them or misinterpret so you’re often going to have to talk things out anyway. I think, also, depending on what you’re looking for, you might want to try different dating apps. Her, for example, is notorious for no one actually talking, but offers a lot of ways to tag or describe yourself. FEELD is very sex-oriented and will let you get into detail about what you’re looking for and kinks and such. Tinder is widely used, but as Summer says, pretty heteronormative, but should be fine for more traditional talk-about-sex-later dating. I have no idea what Bumble or Hinge or many of the others are like. I also know that some queer people still use OK Cupid and it has kind of an older crowd, so you might enjoy giving it a whirl. I’d love if readers wanted to offer any suggestions for the apps that have worked best for them. Wishing you so much luck, and I hope you can concentrate on having fun dates and not worry too much about people approaching sexuality with these very cut and dry, narrow views.

Summer: Welcome to the roaring 20s dating pool! It’s got some great qualities, but app-mediated dating is also a new social landscape to navigate. Some of us never fully grasp it, to be honest. And that’s okay.

If you’re using dating apps aimed at queer people, then it’ll be normal for the app to have lots of identifiers you can use. Tinder is quite heteronormative and has a diverse set of gender options, but not much else. What I’m seeing here is a key shortcoming of dating apps: they rarely have space for us to fully outline our sexual interests and this leads to misunderstandings.

I can think of a few ways to address this.

1. Make it vague. Your profile is allowed to indicate that you’re lesbian/sapphic AFAB or any other broad category. And you’re allowed to also say that you lean toward a certain role or position but are also open to vibes and circumstances. This approach establishes fewer expectations upfront and gives you more space to adjust your desires to the person.
2. Make it very specific. This is the high-detail approach where you detail the positions/roles you identify with and identify key differences. Like your dislike for received penetration. This will take up more bio space and make your profile’s vibe lean very ‘looking for sex and here’s what I want‘. Some people appreciate directness. Other people want less overt sexuality in a bio. It’s a calculated risk we take.
3. Slippery option. Even if you don’t feel specifically aligned to a term like ‘stone’, you can still use it should it match a description of what you want. You could leave a bit of openness by characterizing your interests as stone-ish top or top who loves reciprocity. This establishes some idea of who you are and what you enjoy, but ensures you don’t have to ‘identify’ hard with any group.

Ultimately, dating is dating. Online communication aside, you are still meeting complex people with diverse identities and opinions. I have very clear dating bios and still encounter people who don’t read them, massively misinterpret them, or still ghost despite a convo going well. These aren’t reflections of your efforts. They’re a reflection of how others manage their online interactions.

Online dating makes it far, far easier to access a wide pool of people. It says nothing about the people’s compatibility or behavior. Online communications also open up certain avenues you don’t see as much in traditional face-to-face dating like ease of ghosting.

The best thing you can do is set up a profile that reflects the lovely person you are and, to a lesser extent, what you’re looking for. You can be communicative and open once the messaging starts. But that’s all you can control. The other person still has space to respond and sometimes, people respond badly. 

My friends don’t want to eat my gluten-free dessert…

Q:

I have a wonderful supportive group of friends I love so much, and we often do group dinners together where everyone brings a dish or a dessert, usually 2 people would be assigned dessert. I can’t have gluten, so I often volunteer to do dessert so I can bring a gluten-free dessert, because most desserts involve gluten. I’ve noticed that at dinner though my friends will ask me if what I brought was gluten free, and sometimes that will stop them from eating it. (I also luckily have supportive pals who will eat it and say they can’t even tell it’s gluten free, which is kind of them lol.) I’ve noticed also that now three people are on dessert duty instead of two. I know this is such a small stupid thing, but it makes me feel annoyed, like they’ve been talking behind my back about how annoying it is that I bring gluten-free desserts. Should I just bring a different kind of dish and bring a small dessert for myself? Honestly I wish that I didn’t have to bring my own thing just to be sure I can have something to eat.

A:

Valerie: It sounds like you’re really close with this group of friends, so I’m going to suggest talking to them directly about it. There are a few ways you can do this; one way is to single out one or two of the people you say do try the desserts and ask them if people are annoyed that you’re bringing gluten-free desserts. (And maybe work out a way to approach the rest of the group together about how they shouldn’t be annoyed and should be more accommodating to their friends.)

It’s very possible you’re over-worrying, and that the people who don’t eat the gluten-free desserts just want to make sure there’s plenty for you, since they can eat any of the desserts. If you don’t want to take that route, you can talk to whoever hosted last or whoever assigns the meals why the number of people who brought desserts changed. If either of those conversations go well, you can even ask if it would be possible to rotate who brings a gluten-free dessert, so it doesn’t always have to be you. The only thing I know you should NOT do is only bring a small dessert for yourself. Because anyone can eat gluten-free desserts, but you can ONLY eat gluten-free desserts, so it shouldn’t be hard for them to accommodate you in this small way. It’s not even a sacrifice on their part! There are so many genuinely delicious gluten-free desserts that anyone can enjoy. Maybe you can even ask people what their favorite dessert is and find a similar gluten-free alternative, whether you make it yourself or challenge your best baker to do it. There are a ton of recipes in the Autostraddle archives you can check out, like this list and I know there are some that your friends would enjoy.

Queers love cats but being seriously allergic can make dating understandably fraught!

Q:

I am allergic to cats and I’m afraid this means I’m gonna die alone. Like half the dating pool seems full of cat owners! I’m not looking for advice on allergy medication or allergy shots — trust me I have tried it all. I don’t really know what kind of advice I’m asking for, maybe I’m just asking for hope? Tell me i’m not the only girl in the world who can’t date people with cats……..

A:

Ashni: You’re not the only one! You and I are part of a small but mighty cohort of queer people with cat allergies! According to the Internet (all-knowing), 10-20% of the population is allergic to cats. And then add on all the people who are dog people instead, or who just don’t like cats! I think the odds are promising. Hopefully this gives you a little hope!!

Kayla: I know so many queer people who are allergic to cats or dislike cats or simply don’t own cats! I think you’ll be fine. Like, yes, there are plenty of stereotypes about lesbians and cats, but trust me, you won’t die alone because of this. Just include it in any dating app profiles to easily filter people out.

Riese: I’m not gonna tell you it’s easy but I can tell you that it can be done because I have done it! You are cutting out a solid chunk of the dating pool but idk, on some level you can just think about it as a different thing to have in common. I have a lot in common with dog people it turns out.

Nico: As someone who used to have a fluffy dog, on the other end of the spectrum, I can see where this might be difficult as some people couldn’t come over or visit me because of the hair. However, I know there are people on this team with severe cat allergies or who are allergic to all types of furry friends and cannot enter homes with ANY pet hair, and they do in fact date. That said, dog people are awesome. I’m assuming and hoping it’s just cats?

What if your sex drive always fizzles once you get into a relationship?

Q:

I’ve always been someone who has been much more interested in sex at the start of a relationship, inevitably losing my drive for it as time goes on. I’m also someone who tends to enjoy the mental more than the physical, by which I mean I often find things more hot than in theory than in practice, especially past those new relationship hormones. I have recently learned about the idea of responsive sexual desire and I’m thinking that is relevant to me, though as noted even when I’m being intimate with my partner it’s not uncommon that I just don’t actually physically enjoy what’s happening that much, and have to fantasize heavily to enjoy it. I have also wondered if I may be on the gray ace spectrum.

I’m in a relationship with a woman whose sexual preferences definitely are more on the submissive bottom side of things. In theory, that’s compatible with what I theoretically am interested in. In practice, that means she either expects me to initiate everything or if she does she goes from 0 to 60 and wants me to do the same and take charge, and I’m simply very rarely interested in spontaneously initiating anything, or that into it, especially immediately. The idea of taking charge seems really hot as a fantasy, but I have difficulty doing it in reality when I’m not already turned on. So really we just don’t have sex very often and I think we’re both not fully satisfied with what we do have. Our relationship is otherwise great. I think we would both me more satisfied if we could figure out sex in a way that works for everyone, so appreciate whatever advice you have.

A:

Summer: I think you’ve identified two main challenges here, and even conveniently sectioned them up. Most people have more sex at the beginning of a relationship — it comes with the new relationship energy and novelty of it all. Things generally ‘settle down’ after that time. It could take weeks or years, and varies for each relationship. I don’t think losing a lot of interest in sex after the new relationship energy passes indicates asexuality or a problem. Conversely, asexuality is intensely complex and personalized. You’re the expert on your own mind and only you can do the research and reflection to come to that decision. Your experiences could line up with many possibilities ranging from enjoying the novelty of new relationships more all the way through asexuality.

On the second point, I do relate to your experiences. I’m also quite a responsive lover and almost never initiate from a cold start anymore. That used to be different, but that’s how things are now. The thing is, my girlfriend has a similar sex drive that requires interest ahead of time. It’s something we’ve worked on for years and although we’ve found a happy medium that works for us, it can take a long time to balance out.

I won’t impose our methods or life on you, but what I can say is.

• I think this is a topic that bears discussion with your partner. I think that honest and open discussion could be an opportunity to talk about frustrations and reassure each other of anxieties. I don’t believe this is a ‘you’ or ‘her’ problem. I believe that this is something the relationship can work on together.
• Consider loosening the taboos on masturbation. If you’re in a place that allows it, masturbation can act as a preamble to sexual activity. I don’t even mean like… draped on the couch and playing when one person gets home. Unless that works for you. It can mean notifying that you’re feeling a bit horny and are going to start, and leaving an invitation open to join. No pressure or disappointment if they don’t. Involve more toys and explore yourself.

I recommend the masturbation thing because it’s very versatile. It’s a way to satisfy some of our sexual needs in the absence of a partner. It keeps the sex drive running and attentive, which might stir up arousal for a partner. It can bridge into the arousal needed for someone to initiate. It’s just fun. As long as everyone is aware that their masturbation is not a sign that the other partner is ‘underperforming’ or ‘not satisfying me’, it’s just adding sexuality to the house without the attached fears of initiating sex.

• Seek alternative forms of intimacy. Things like cuddling and making out. Cuddling closely during movie nights or similar. Playful touches and butt grabs. These small bits of intimacy do matter to assure people that you’re attracted to them and noticing them. If your relationship needs it, these acts reinforce the atmosphere of affection, attraction, and love. 

Nico: Summer’s suggestions are awesome, and I also just want to recommend our managing editor Kayla’s recent article, “How to Kill Lesbian Bed Death” which may have some helpful resources for you on fostering sexual intimacy in a longterm partnership. I think, also, it’s quite normal for fantasies not to match up 1:1 or even to diverge highly from what we like in sex in the physical, actual world (outside our heads). You might be more toppy when fantasizing and more bottom-y when having IRL sex, and that’s okay! You also describe your partner as more on the submissive, which is good to know. Is it possible that you’re also more bottom-y than maybe your fantasies imply? I heard somewhere, actually, that if they’re willing to work on switching off, that two more bottom-y people can develop a great sex life because you each know what you desire as a more bottom-y / submissive / responsive person and are able to perform that. This only works, of course, if you’re each willing to roleplay as a more dominant / toppy partner for each other, but it’s a conversation you could have!

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