The following article contains some spoilers for ep. 1-4 of The Studio.
Welcome to our series called Dykes Discuss, where we discuss media and topics that aren’t necessarily lesbian-forward but that we still want to weigh in on! We have fun!
Kayla: We’re dykes and we have been watching The Studio on Apple TV.
Drew: Something about me is I love Seth Rogen.
Kayla: I do, too!
Drew: The summer of 2007 was big for me because Knocked Up and Superbad were the first two movies I ever snuck into.
I find him very enjoyable and also he seems like a relatively okay dude?? Idk. I just like him. So watching this show was an easy yes for me. Especially once I learned a straight dude I love even more — Martin Scorsese — made a cameo in the premiere.
Kayla: A show that promises to make fun of Hollywood and also features a bunch of stars playing THEMSELVES (or, like, fictional versions of themselves) is definitely a show for me.
I would LOVE to get your initial thoughts on the series as someone who has worked in and around the industry. My time working in the industry was very limited and a very long time ago.
Drew: I’m watching Succession for the first time and my experiences of these shows are similar. I’m laughing, I’m rooting for them, but I’m also like oh you piece of shit. And I know the characters on Succession are way worse, but I have a very direct emotional investment in the way the characters on The Studio suck. This is all to say, yeah, the show feels very accurate.
And I like the angle that Rogen’s studio head does care about movies. Just not with any principles or backbone. That also feels very common.
Kayla: Yes, absolutely! Even the characters’ redeeming qualities circle back to them being awful.
I don’t think I’d be interested in a show where Rogen’s character is like this film-loving guy who is actually trying to make Hollywood a better place. It would feel like such a fantasy and lose any of the commentary’s bite.
Drew: Yeah Ryan Murphy’s Hollywood only worked because it came out in May of 2020 and I was so mentally ill I was deluded into thinking it wasn’t bad.
Kayla: On The Studio, there seems to be a genuine willingness from all these real life players in the big Hollywood machine to skewer the big Hollywood machine.
Kathryn Hahn’s absolutely heinous portrayal of a marketing head is transcendent.
Drew: God she is always COMMITTED.
Kayla: I think it was the first or second episode where she’s just SO physical, like getting in Rogen’s face in this super aggressive way that’s so funny but also scary at the same time like — I DO NOT WANT TO ENCOUNTER THIS CHARACTER.
Drew: Yeah a total nightmare, But at least she doesn’t kill a Martin Scorsese movie !!!! I know it’s fake but I was still like DUDE. I was so mad lmao
Kayla: And made Scorsese CRY!
Drew: One of the reasons this show is working better for me than the other recent Hollywood satire The Franchise is that show was so focused on the Marvel machine so I didn’t care about whether their movie succeeded. The stakes are high here because it’s meaningful art bumping up against the broken film industry.
Kayla: Yes, I’m gonna root for a Sarah Polley film!
Drew: Speaking of the Sarah Polley episode and oners, the long takes throughout the series have sometimes been working for me and sometimes they haven’t. Episode three it starts to be broken up a bit more and I think it makes that episode stronger. Or maybe it’s just that I don’t like Ron Howard’s movies so I didn’t care about his work being altered haha
Kayla: Yeah, listen, I’m a slut for a oner. Much like Rogen’s character, I like them perhaps TOO MUCH. But I definitely agree that too much of it can start to feel gimmicky. For meeeee, the show has largely avoided that though. I think it helps that it’s starting to formally play in other ways, like this most recent episode which takes on a noir structure.
Drew: Yes! I did like that. And was amused by the justifications — like wearing wardrobe due to being cold and Rogen creating voice notes as therapy.
The long takes do require directors playing themselves who can act. So it makes sense they went with Polley and Howard and Olivia Wilde. And then Martin Scorsese is just a pro and can do anything.
Kayla: Yes absolutely, all the long takes would fall apart if the acting wasn’t any less than stellar.
Also, whatever these camera operators are being paid — it isn’t enough!
Drew: Oh yeah they’re doing a great job even if I’m not as obsessed with the stylistic choice. I did like the meta usage of it for the second episode though.
Kayla: And I liked that they were even kind of making fun of the fact that the show is shot that way. That didn’t feel cheap to me. I feel like the series is so cynical about the industry in a way that actually makes it quite humorous and FUN to watch, even if it’s depressing to think about what it all really means for art and film.
Drew: Even after four episodes it really feels structured like a sitcom. Every episode has a director who wants something, Matt and the gang try to solve it, hijinks ensue, and they screw it up.
Kayla: It feels like Mad Men did cocaine.
Drew: And ya know what? Mad Men was sometimes a sitcom.
Kayla: The classic sitcom Mad Men.
But, yeah, it totally is like a sitcom with a clear and straightforward structure. There are SO MANY things that can go wrong when making a movie, so the series has an endless well to pull from, truly.
Drew: I’m sure I could look it up but I haven’t had any of the guest stars spoiled for me for future episodes.
Kayla: I haven’t either! Does the show have an absurd budget or do actors just like Rogen enough to cameo for lower than usual rates?
Drew: I have to assume it’s the latter?? Although Apple does have a lot of money.
I mean, there is something a little sinister about the moment in the pilot when Scorsese is like “I should’ve just gone with Apple!” But the real-life classic studios haven’t earned our defense! They chased the tech companies and streamers and have turned into even worse versions of them!
Apple did Killers of the Flower Moon, so I’ll allow that mostly unearned bit of self-promotion.
Kayla: Yeah, I bristled at that line for sure. But it didn’t bother me quite as much as when Apple put out a series all about the “dangers” of artificial intelligence during like the same week they announced a new AI technology.
Drew: !!
In the end the film and TV industry is always going to be both beautiful and evil.
Kayla: I mean it all goes back to whether something made within a particular system can actually critique that system. And I think there will inherently be some limits to The Studio! But so far, it has done a solid job of navigating those realities. It’s not really pulling too many punches.
Drew: And it’s just fun! I get the critique that it’s pandering to people who spend too much time on Letterboxd but… I am one of those people so.
Kayla: Yeah, I’m curious to see how my parents — who don’t really know much about the film and TV industry at all and were always kinda bewildered by anything I told them when I briefly worked in it — view the show.
Drew: Yeah I’m definitely curious about non-film people’s enjoyment of it.
Who would be your dream guest stars for future episodes?
Kayla: Well, I’m for some reason watching every Alison Brie movie ever made right now, and since we already got Dave Franco, she clearly has to exist in this universe! I’d want to see her with her screenwriter/producer hat on though.
Drew: I do feel like Dave Franco being there is a good sign for Alison Brie to show up.
Kayla: I like the distinction between the actors playing fictional versions of themselves and the ones who are still very well known actors but are playing pure characters. So Kathryn Hahn doesn’t exist in this universe?!
Drew: Wow I hadn’t even thought about that.
Maybe it’s an Ocean’s 12 situation where this publicist just looks a lot like Kathryn Hahn.
Kayla: LOL
Who’s on your guest star dream list? I’m trying to think of others besides Alison Brie even though much like when I was closeted and on tumblr in 2010 she is very top of mind.
Drew: Hahaha
Spike Lee for sure. Along with Scorsese, he’s my favorite director who acts. (Not to be confused with actor/director.)
Kayla: Oh yeah that’s a great one! Yeah, I’m trying to think of more directors who can act (well).
Drew: Idk if he can act but I feel like Luca Guadagnino would be funny. But it would require him to not be currently in production on a movie which might be tough.
Same issue with Soderbergh who was name dropped a couple episodes ago.
Kayla: Guadagnino and Soderbergh STAY in production.
Drew: Todd Haynes playing himself bitching about the real life Joaquin Phoenix situation lol
Kayla: Yeah, I do want there to be more feuds playing out on screen that are rooted in reality, but I suppose that’s tough.
Drew: I was baited by the Seth Rogen/Kathryn Hahn Hot Ones Versus because I saw a preview where they were both asked juicy questions. But in the video they opt for a wing instead of answering.
As The Studio shows, no one wants to piss anyone off in this industry!
Kayla: It’s so true. I know you didn’t love the Ron Howard episode, but one part I enjoyed a lot was Matt’s assistant being so ready to give Howard the note none of them want to give him…until she’s faced with Anthony Mackie and chickens out because she loves him too much.
Drew: Chase Sui Wonders is so good. I’ve been a fan since Genera+ion. The episode that focuses on her character called “CLICK WHIRR” is like one of my favorite episodes of TV ever.
Kayla: Didn’t that ep win an Autostraddle TV Award? If so, I feel like it was largely due to your influence.
Drew: Oh yeah I CAMPAIGNED.
But no I loved the Ron Howard episode!! I just don’t love Ron Howard, so it didn’t make me mad.
Kayla: Ohhhh hahaha got it got it
Drew: I was like yeah cut Ron’s movie and in fact I don’t think Matt’s A Beautiful Mind note is that bad, because anything was worth trying to improve that shitty Oscar-winning movie. My hot take for the day.
Kayla: WOW you heard it here first!
All the hand-wringing and dodging and coddling and manipulation all of these characters end up doing just so they don’t hurt people’s feelings (but usually for self-serving reasons) — only to then usually hurt people’s feelings WORSE — is something that feels industry-specific but also more broadly applicable to other industries (looking at you, publishing) and LIFE.
Drew: Yes, absolutely. Everyone wants to be liked but very few people are all that likable.
Kayla: This is an extreme tangent, but have we ever gotten to the bottom of whether Apple lets characters smoke cigarettes on screen? This was a topic in our group chat a while back. This series has featured cocaine and smoking a joint on screen…has anyone smoked a cig? And then if not, why IS Apple seemingly so strict about that? A feud with Phillip Morris????
Drew: Woah I think you’re right. I don’t remember any cigarettes in these four episodes even in the noir themed one!
We did confirm The Morning Show got a few in at some point right? God this industry is bizarre.
Kayla: I don’t recall an instance on The Morning Show, but on Sunny (the aforementioned AI show which was actually pretty good when I was able to get past the real-life Apple AI stuff…), Rashida Jones put a cigarette in her mouth but never lit it.
Drew: Ah yes just like high school theatre
Kayla: People say it’s most noticeable on Palm Royale, which I don’t watch but which takes place in the SIXTIES
It would be like Mad Men without cigarettes. But if there are no cigarettes on The Studio, that’s also like Mad Men but without cigarettes!
Drew: I do think LA has become more of a non-smoking town so it’s crazier to me not to have cigarettes in the movies within the movies rather than among the characters themselves.
I had a producer boss who smoked and she kept it very hidden. I only knew because I was her assistant.
Kayla: Oh really? Everyone I know in LA still smokes cigarettes lol
I mean it was 10 years ago but I deeply associate cigarettes with the industry. I know it has probably shifted a bit, but yeah I think some people are probably just doing it in secret.
I only really smoked cigarettes when working as an intern at the Mark Gordon Company.
(I almost said RIP after Mark Gordon Company. He’s not dead and nor is his production studio. I’m just simply not an intern anymore.)
Drew: Sound logic to me
I think of smoke breaks on set as an East Coast thing.
Kayla: Oh yeah anecdotally I probably see more smokers in New York.
Drew: The way that Don Draper would once a season go to LA, Matt should visit a set in New York.
Kayla: I am much like Don Draper in that I go to LA and am like what if I stayed but then don’t.
Drew: Dykes Discuss: Mad Men!
Kayla: DON’T TEMPT ME WITH A GOOD TIME
The Studio is now streaming on Apple TV+.
YES to Dykes Discuss Mad Men but more importantly this has got me, someone who has no strong Seth Rogan opinions, intrigued and interested!
The real question is how does this compare to Episodes which for me is the pinnacle (though TV, movies, very different of course) if either of you have seen?
Impressive work! You’ve made an interesting topic even more engaging.
Really enjoyed this! Your writing style is so engaging.
This gave me a lot to think about—thank you for sharing your thoughts!
Clear, concise, and super helpful. Great job!”