I want to support my [erstwhile lesbian] girlfriend, but I draw a hard line at cis men…
Q:
How do I support my partner through an identity change that I am not enthusiastic about? My partner is starting to explore her sexuality more. At first, we both identified as lesbians. I know bisexual women and lesbians have a lot in common, but there are some things that we do not. I like sharing that part of my identity with my partner. If she settles on being attracted to men as well, we will lose that aspect of our connection. Further, I don’t have any IRL lesbian friends so I would lose this connection overall in my life. Something else complicating this is that we are poly. I categorically do not want to have a cis man as a meta. That is not something that I am willing to have in my life.
At the same time, I can’t tell her who to date or explore if she does realize she is attracted to men. In all honesty, I am not sure if I would want to continue our relationship if she began dating a cis man. Does that make me a biphobic misandrist?
I haven’t brought this up to her because I don’t think it’s appropriate to ask her to reassure me about this. I don’t want her to feel like I am pressuring her to figure things out or that I am disappointed or unsupportive. I also don’t think it’s constructive- her answer may very well be something I don’t want to hear, and in that case there is nothing to do besides be privately upset. Am I biphobic for secretly hoping she isn’t attracted to men? I am also aware that I have been making this all about me and my feelings. I do want her to figure out her truth and live however feels best for her. How can I still be supportive to her while I am dealing with these emotions?
Summer: Hmmm yeah part of this sounds like biphobia. So to get some of the not-so-problematic things out of the way. It’s good that you want to let her find herself. It’s perfectly fine that you don’t want a cis-man to become a permanent fixture in your relationship if that entails your involvement as well. You don’t have to cross your sexual boundaries if you don’t want to. It’s also understandable that you’re concerned about your connection with your girlfriend.
But I personally don’t think that her finding an attraction to other genders lessens her value as a sapphic. To argue that would require arguing that being a lesbian is somehow superior to any other sexuality, whether it’s within your relationship or not. That doesn’t sit well with me. Your fears about losing your primary IRL lesbian friend also speaks to how highly you value the label lesbian. It seems to me that prizing lesbian identity in your partner is the source of the friction because the label is under threat (due to consensual exploration) and that’s driving some distress.
I… have a hard time tracing that line of thinking to any source other than some biphobia or pretty not-great views on lesbianism in relation to any other gender identity. It’s okay for you to have firm relational and sexual boundaries and I’m glad that you’re able to respect that her exploration is her business. But I do think that there’s work here for you to do. The kind of reflective work that asks uncomfortable questions about why it’s important to you that your girlfriend is a ‘lesbian’ as opposed to anything else.
Drew: I agree with Summer. While it can be fun and meaningful to connect with people who have the same identity as you, your relationship with your partner should be built on more than both identifying as lesbians. (Also there are so many ways to experience the world as a lesbian — both using the word doesn’t mean you’re identical.) If you want more lesbians in your life, that’s something to seek out from other people rather than hoping your partner sticks with that identity.
You don’t have to spend time with anyone you don’t want to, but I do always find it a little questionable when someone has gender requirements for who their poly partner dates separate from their relationship. There is nothing a cis man inherently does that a non-cis man couldn’t do — positively or negatively. I highly recommend reading Vivek Shraya’s I’m Afraid of Men. It really helped me in processing my own hatred/fear of men.
Riese: This is a tough one to answer. I do wanna say that I think your understanding of your lesbian bond with your girlfriend might be a bit limited or based on knowing / befriending a limited number of lesbians. At this point I’m not confident that I actually know how, specifically, every one of my friends identifies on that spectrum, it’s never felt particularly relevant to the very gay friendships we have with each other. I identify as bisexual sometimes but I don’t think anybody who knows me feels like I’m lacking the lesbian energy they need in their life, I mean, look around. I don’t know if queer cultural affinity is something that matters to you, but if it is, honestly, there are so many bisexuals who are deeply entrenched in and committed to lesbian culture and there are many lesbians who are deeply entrenched in and committed to heterosexual culture but just-so-happen to have a wife instead of a husband.
I want to say that I appreciate your acknowledgement that you know you are making her journey about you and that you don’t want your aversions to this to be her problem, that’s a valuable and promising piece of self-awareness. Listen; you don’t have to be in a sexual relationship with anyone you don’t want to be, regardless of where your aversion to your girlfriend having a cis man as a meta comes from, even if it comes from biphobia — but in that case I think being supportive of your girlfriend’s desires to explore her sexuality would mean ending your current relationship. Ultimately, this might just be a really hard thing you will have to figure out how to deal with, even if you’re unable to talk yourself out of feeling like it’s a really hard thing. You’ll have to figure out how to live with that discomfort and strengthen your relationship despite it.
Maybe you can get to the root of this by asking yourself what you are afraid of? What is at stake here for you? Sometimes one person in a relationship doing major self-exploration of any kind can freak the other partner out, like the fear that any deliberate journey representing a significant deviation from the relationship’s initial status quo could drive a wedge into the partnership. But the strongest relationships and longest marriages I’ve witnessed in my friend’s lives are those that give the other space to change and grow, that aren’t afraid deeper self-awareness will rupture something between them. If you can’t give her that space, it will likely fill with deceptions; the things she’s afraid to tell you and the things you don’t want to hear. (That said, it’s ok to set boundaries around which details you wanna hear regarding her other dates, I know lots of poly couples do that.) This is also an opportunity for you to grow and change and reckon with what’s working or not in your own life — the solution to a lack of lesbian friends isn’t ensuring your girlfriend remains a lesbian, it’s making more lesbian friends.
I wonder if you might also be grappling with some internalized homophobia and are potentially feeling insecure about “competing” with cis men? Why do you feel okay about her dating trans men but not cis men? Non-binary people, but not cis men? Like Summer said, do you see lesbians as a superior brand of sapphic to bisexuals? Answering these questions might help illuminate the source of your concern and thus enable you to tackle it. I don’t mean to “not all cis men” you here, but cis men come in many varieties (including “queer”), have all sorts of intersectional identities that impact their position on the vast spectrum of institutional power, and the lines between one gender and another can be pretty blurry. Unpack it!
Tips on Moving In With Your Girlfriend
Q:
Hi friends! My girlfriend and I are about to move in together, yay! I’m 34 and she’s 33 and we’ve been semi-long distance for nearly three years – a couple of hours apart and seeing each other most weekends, spending a lot of time at each other’s places. I currently live alone and we’re getting a place together in the city where she’s currently living with friends (and where I used to live and have friends too). She was previously married and this is my first (ever!) relationship, but we’ve been really careful to communicate as much as possible and I’m feeling really excited about taking this step together. So, aside from bragging, what I’m after is your top tips for moving in together for the first time – what’s made things go smoothly for you in the past, what has surprised you, what’s the best/worst parts? Thanks so much!
Summer: Well okay this is adorable. Congratulations to you both for sticking through the long distance portion and embarking on life together.
Logistically, my biggest thing about moving is to make a conscious effort to organize and plan your use of shared space. Especially if one of you hasn’t cohabited at all. Use of space is valuable both on how to make the unpacking process smoother and to establish home boundaries. It’s best to talk about a variety of topics like key items that MUST be in certain places, or this and that can NEVER be together, or this space is mine and I would strongly prefer it’s less touched. Working on this together while you move and unpack is a way to learn about each other’s habitation needs and already begin the important process of negotiation and compromise.
Emotionally, be prepared for a change in your emotional dynamic. Moving in means you will be spending more time together than ever before. But a lot of that time will be consumed by pure mundanity and life ‘basics’. Time may feel less ‘special’ because you see each other so often. Don’t be surprised if one of you even needs space away from the other because living with another person can be a bit claustrophobic (depending on the size of the place). Be prepared for some activities to feel less ‘special’ now that they can happen at will, but also make space for dates and affection. Movie dates, lunch dates, and similar can still have a place. They can become more important once a relationship has ‘settled’ to maintain the sense of mutual care.
My best part of moving in with someone? Having an extra pair of hands to coordinate the process and help unpack. My worst part? The labor and stress of the moving process itself. Always try to use your time well to fit in extra tasks before the move. There’s always more to do than you think. When it comes to unpacking, designate a task list of what to unpack first and then block out your unpacking so that it gets done steadily, but not in a way that overwhelms people.
Otherwise, I hope y’all have a great life together and learn a lot about the joys of being with a special person.
Kayla: This is obvious, but just try talking about as many things as possible ahead of time, all the time, right up to the moment of living together! You’ve been together for a while, but long distance can sometimes mean there’s still a lot you have to learn about each other, especially when it comes to your daily lives and how you are in your own spaces. Is one of you a morning person and the other not? Talk about it! Talk about what your main priorities are for your living space. Also, if possible, try to have spaces that can be considered your “own” in your new place. Even if it’s a small place, this can be as simple as a desk or a special reading chair that’s just yours —it doesn’t have to be its whole own room! Also be open to the idea that no matter how much communication you have ahead of time, things might shift once you’re ACTUALLY living together. In a lot of ways, it’s not possible to perfectly prep to live together —you just have to do dive in and see what happens! Address issues or tensions as they arise instead of letting them fester. Shop for household items —from as small as dishes to as big as furniture —together as much as possible, so it feels like you both have a say in the look/feel of the space, even if one of you is pickier than the other. Be patient. Moving is stressful no matter what.
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For Q1: I’m a bisexual cis woman, my partner is on the trans masculine spectrum (and does not necessarily pass as a man). While we’re currently monogamous, when we were dating other people, he said he did not want me to date cis men, and I 100% get it and did not do it. In the world we live in, “feeling insecure about “competing” with cis men” does not need to be due to internalized homophobia, but due to very real reactions the surroundings might have and very real discrimination. Like coworkers assuming the cis male metamour automatically is the primary partner, parents suddenly hoping their daughter turned straight after all and the parents treating the girlfriend worse than the cis male metamour etc. Of course, cis men also have different sets of “intersectional identities that impact their position on the vast spectrum of institutional power” (well phrased!), but all other identities being the same, being cis and male and the relationship with the girlfriend being perceived as straight is a huge power difference.
For the LW’s other concerns, I agree she could examine her own possible biphobia, and please find some lesbian friends. But not wanting a cis male metamour imo does not need to be biphobic. She could examine if some restrictions (e.g. for now only sex with the cis guys, then let’s see) or taking things slowly could make it work, if that works within her and her girlfriend’s poly agreements. But of course, then the two of them would need to talk about her reservations.
Hey salander! I want to preface this by saying that *I’m* not even totally convinced by my own argument here–I just noticed some parallels and would love to get your thoughts.
Some of the things listed as reasons to not want your partner to have a cis-male partner (like “coworkers assuming the cis male metamour automatically is the primary partner”, “parents treating the girlfriend worse than the cis male metamour,” etc.) called to mind things my family expressed to me when I came out as bisexual.
Things like, “we want you to be happy, but we’re worried about what might happen if you and a girl walk around holding hands in public.” Or “we don’t have a problem with this, but please keep it quiet so that we don’t hear about it from our neighbors/friends/church”. Or “please be thoughtful about who you share this with. People might think you’re doing it for attention.” These statements reflected an interest in how my sexuality and the dynamics associated with it (potential for increased violence, potential for church-goers to judge my parents for their raising me, potential for people to think I was seeking attention) were going to impact their feelings and sense of ease in the world. I interpreted this as judgement and the result of biphobia (and homophobia more broadly).
A lot of the things you describe seem to be desires to not have to confront the effects of biphobia/homophobia in your life, which makes sense, because these effects can have really negative impacts on a relationship. It just feels kind of like a chicken-or-the-egg thing…biphobia exists and can make life tough, you/question-asker don’t want to deal with biphobia (and the specific dynamics that come with introducing cis men into poly relationships where someone is bi), therefore is it biphobic to want a partner who doesn’t make choices that will invite biphobia? I think you can look at that in a couple ways, as a yes or a no.
I appreciate this addendum, I think your chicken in the egg analogy works well and is better than the initial responses. I’ll admit i get frustruated with how quickly these discussions jump to biphobia as the main point, because I think it can kinda of limit further exploration into the societal situation we find ourselves in. I don’t think we can call it bigoted for someone to acknowledge we live in a homophobic society and try to shield themselves from experiencing that homophobia as much as possible. I certainly don’t think of myself as inferior for being a lesbian, but I acknowledge that the rest of society definitely does, it has been thrown in my face my entire life. If society will always privilege relationships it can read as cis/het, other relationships will always be devalued, even subconsciously. I actually think it’s pretty self aware of the question asker to acknowledge that watching a partner pursue a societially acceptable relationship (which as a homosexuals, people like us will never get to have) could be tough and might mean it’s time to bow out of the relationship. The partner should be able to explore her potential new identity, but it no one is in the wrong if that means the relationship comes to an end.
A lot of lesbians seem to get caught in the trap of believing that they need their partner to be identical to them with regard to identity, which is a strange trap that is perhaps unique to us. Maybe it comes from trauma due to homophobia/patriarchy, but that doesn’t make it a worthwhile relationship goal. You know your stance is biphobic. What does it accomplish for you? How does it make your life better, really? Why does a person need to resemble you in order to complement you and understand you? Can there be no deep connection across difference? Bi women do not need to have lived your experience or share identical attractions in order to love you. Lesbians will not automatically understand you better just because you share an identity.
And look, I don’t exactly seek to increase the time I spend around cis men, but I don’t get why anyone would categorically reject the idea of any cis male meta. Why does it really matter to you if she dates them? You’re not the one dating them. Nothing is stopping you from speaking up if a cis man she’s dating crosses a line with you. Dating men will not automatically prevent her from protecting your relationship, she deserves the benefit of the doubt.
Make some lesbian friends IRL and don’t let biphobia narrow your world.
Q1: Getting lesbian friends IRL is actually a great way to break the isolation you’re feeling in your relationship and share (A LITTLE BIT) of your anxieties with your partner, *when you already have a solution to that anxiety in hand*.
Example thing to say to your girlfriend after you find a lesbian meetup you go to (even if you live in the middle of nowhere, there’s gotta be something within driving distance once a month):
“I’m going to [a lesbian friend meetup at the library/bar/amusement park] on Thursday. I don’t know what it’s going to be like or if the people are cool, but I’ll tell you all about how it went :)
(Your partner can be like “oh yeah? What’s making you excited to go?” and you can reply, or you can just press on to the next part)
You know, I realized that I didn’t have any IRL lesbian friends in my life, and I realized that maybe I should look into making more friends! Because I love you so much and I really want you to feel free and supported by me while you explore your sexuality, without me getting nervous about “losing” lesbian connections if you end up changing your label. Does that make sense, baby?”
(You can discuss more, reassure, kiss, whatever, at this point.)
The objective here is to let her know just a little bit of how you’re feeling, without it being a vague complaint (“Ugh, I have no lesbian friends”) or something she needs to fix for you. That’s why it’s a good idea to open it when you’ve already started the process of trying to make new friends.
Finally: maybe that first meetup will suck! Go to another. And another. There likely will be *some* lesbians you will connect with, regardless of their age, personality, or interests – but even if there are none whom you click (try to meet at least 20-30 lesbians before you give up), it will be a major learning experience for you to meet lesbians IRL in their infinite variety.
I actually think it’s okay for a lesbian to not want to have men as metamours. That’s not the same thing as saying that bi women aren’t really queer. Saying to the partner, you’re not allowed to date men, would be biphobic and controlling. But saying, I don’t want men in my polycule, I won’t stay in a relationship which brings men into my life in that way, is a perfectly legitimate boundary. As somebody who has been around poly queer women for about thirty years, I’ve seen this before, sometimes it’s what needs to happen for both women to feel happy and safe.
I agree with that. I think some key information here is that they are *poly*, not in an open relationship where your partner’s partners are basically none of your business.
I do think it that expressing that limit has to be done *very* sensitively and carefully though. It really has to be done after some deep and thorough reflection on your reasons for making that limit important in your life, some clear and loving conversations, and an “it’s not you, it’s me” attitude. Otherwise it really can sound like saying that the bi/pan girlfriend is “dirty” or “disloyal” by dating/sleeping with guys.
For moving in together:
Have a dishwasher
I’ve found that dishes are one of the absolute most common roommate struggles, and if you have a dishwasher that lessens it so much
If I were in your shoes, I’d probably schedule a once a week meeting to talk about how it’s going and any changes we think should happen. Many people find it hard to make their feelings known out of the blue, so having a designated time to really think about it can help people communicate their issues, preventing them from festering.
I’m bisexual and so is my girlfriend (and we are polyam). So I’m saying this with an awareness that bisexual people face biphobia from lesbians (and others) etc etc.
Not wanting to have a cis male metamour is not necessarily biphobic and I don’t see how it automatically implies that being a lesbian is “superior”. It can be about a fear of change and uncertainty, or about wanting to protect your intimate space with your partner, and feeling afraid that that space will be “invaded”. Or, as others have said, it can be about the fear that the straight-seeming relationship will be perceived as more valid. Obviously, it’s true that some cis men are amazing (and queer), but we do still live in a world which they rule, and that potentially has a huge effect on power dynamics in our relationships.
As others have said, it’s worth thinking deeply about what you’re afraid of and what kind of reassurance you need. In any relationship (but especially a polyam dynamic), it’s important to take your own fears and needs seriously and not dismiss them or condemn them for being “wrong”, even if they do contain elements of biphobia, internalised homophobia, etc. (I appreciate Drew’s reading suggestion as a way of working through those feelings.)